Do alignments improve the gaming experience?

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Yup, because it couldn't possibly be that the thing is just to heavy. I must be incompetent if I can't pick it up.

Just like this thread. I don't have the secret decoder ring, so I'm just too incompetent to understand the brilliance that is alignment.

Funny how you only picked two classes in 3rd considering that there are what, three classes that DON'T have alignment restrictions.
 

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I have never said that those who use alignment mechanics are in the wrong or having badwrongfun. What I have said is that I don't enjoy those mechanics and I hope that they are more optional in 5e than they are in say 3e.
You can choose not to use the paladin
Hussar can of course speak for himself, but for my part one of the points I have been consistently trying to make in this thread is that I want to use the paladin - I like GMing them, and when I play I like playing them - and AD&D/3E-style alignment mechanics are an impediment to that.
 

Hussar can of course speak for himself, but for my part one of the points I have been consistently trying to make in this thread is that I want to use the paladin - I like GMing them, and when I play I like playing them - and AD&D/3E-style alignment mechanics are an impediment to that.

The question is do you like playing the D&D paladin... we've debated this before but I still stand by the assertion that what you want to play is a divinely powered mercenary or warrior... not a paladin in the pre-4e D&D sense.
 

The question is do you like playing the D&D paladin... we've debated this before but I still stand by the assertion that what you want to play is a divinely powered mercenary or warrior... not a paladin in the pre-4e D&D sense.
D&D didn't invent the paladin archetype. Romantic authors of the high middle ages did, and it has been reinforced and perhaps in some ways developed over time since then.

When I play a paladin I have zero interest in playing a divinely powered mercenary. In fact that is the interpretation I place on the sort of paladin you and others have described upthread, one who receives divine power only provided that s/he sticks to a code that is, from the point of view of the universe, arbitrary - arbitrary because, from the point of view of the universe, there is no reason to be LG rather than (say) CE.

When I play a paladin I play a character who believes in the reality of providence, and hence disavows all dishonourable and unjust conduct. Claims that evil must be done so that good can ultimately triumph are, for the character I am interested in playing, flawed for two reasons: first, they are empirically false; second, they are betrayals of faith in that divine providence which ensures that those who act morally will not be betrayed.

In modern fantasy literature the best-known exponent of this world view is Tolkien (through Aragorn and Gandalf as his mouthpieces). Aragorn is a quintessential paladin. Obviously so are many of the knights of the Round Table (eg Galahad, Percival, Lancelot before his fall) and knights of the Carolignian romances also.

These are the sorts of characters I want to play. The D&D paladin captures them very well mechanically - a warrior who is divinely bless, can heal with a touch and smite his/her enemies - except that the alignment mechanics get in the way, by either ruling out from the get-go the cosmological world view that underpins the class, or (on a different approach to them) turning the character more-or-less into the GM's puppet.
 

Well N'raac pretty clearly stated that it was just a player who wanted to take the easy route and not bother role playing and I missed you disagreeing with him between consistently agreeing with everything he's said.

If context matters then all alignment is relative which is pretty counter to your position throughout this thread.

I said your comment that role playing is reduced because the players cannot simply kill prisoners on a whim struck me as ludicrous. They don't want to role play the issues of taking prisoners? Kill all the prisoners. I also said I see no game improvement between "kill the enemy in combat" and "kill any survivors/prisoners".

I have never said killing the prisoner is always evil, and my concerns have run more to law/chaos (is the character actually empowered to dispense justice) than good/evil (under what circumstances is taking a life an acceptable compromise of Good ethics). Please stop putting words in our mouths.
 

I said your comment that role playing is reduced because the players cannot simply kill prisoners on a whim struck me as ludicrous. They don't want to role play the issues of taking prisoners? Kill all the prisoners. I also said I see no game improvement between "kill the enemy in combat" and "kill any survivors/prisoners".

I have never said killing the prisoner is always evil, and my concerns have run more to law/chaos (is the character actually empowered to dispense justice) than good/evil (under what circumstances is taking a life an acceptable compromise of Good ethics). Please stop putting words in our mouths.

The irony between these two paragraphs is striking. Complaining that I put words in your mouth while at the same time claiming that I find killing prisoners in a whim to be in keeping with alignment.

Nice.
 

The D&D paladin captures them very well mechanically - a warrior who is divinely bless, can heal with a touch and smite his/her enemies - except that the alignment mechanics get in the way, by either ruling out from the get-go the cosmological world view that underpins the class, or (on a different approach to them) turning the character more-or-less into the GM's puppet.

(Emphasis mine.)

In 30+ years of D&D gaming, I have literally never felt this way as a player. In fact, I feel the exact opposite- that the alignment rules support the Paladin (and to a certain degree, Clerics), and in many ways, the game would almost not need the Alignment rules were Paladins not part of the game.
 



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