D&D 5E The new Dungeons & Dragons Starter Set - and online tools?

[Ruin Explorer]

I might add, that I as an advocate of the D&D game being made as accessible as possible to regular and casual gamers rather than just marketing to the hardcore fans am very excited about.

Casual almost certainly means something usable (or at least accessible) from a smart phone. If you have a free app/rules combo that anyone curios about D&D can download and make a character with, the starter set duplicating those rules would be useless.

Smart phones apps are, at this point in the US/UK/Canada, simply a more appealing and an easier route for newbies to get into D&D gaming than going into a store and having to buy a box set first. It certainly fills the instant gratification need that many people in first world countries crave.

This is really the test of whether WotC are "playing to win" or not, with 5E.

If they really are, they will have both web-based online tools, and an app for chargen and character management (for both iOS and Android), as well as other online resources.

If they kind of are, they'll have probably either web-based tools or an app (maybe just for iOS).

If they aren't serious about 5E, they won't have any of that.

Non-4E players may not realize how astonishingly helpful the 4E character builder is for casual players (and the adventure builder for DMs), and probably don't have integrated auto-updated virtual character sheets on their mobiles and tablets - whereas 3/5 of the players at my table do. It's 2014. Hopefully WotC knows that.

 

[Thaumaturge]

My guess is that there will be a full game downloadable from the WotC site. Like people are saying, it'll be like an updated play test. I think they may call that the "Basic" game. It'll have no feats or anything, but the characters you make with it will be compatible with characters from the "advanced" PHB.

Similarly; there will be a basic set of monsters and the basic information one needs to DM. Mearls mentioned a while ago that he like DMing tutorials to be on the site instead of in a ($50) book, so I think "how to DM" stuff is in this document to.


This is the "Basic Set" of our era—the core rules for free online. It's like WoW letting people play the first 20 levels free.


This is just my own rampant speculation.

Thaumaturge.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

My guess is that there will be a full game downloadable from the WotC site. Like people are saying, it'll be like an updated play test. I think they may call that the "Basic" game. It'll have no feats or anything, but the characters you make with it will be compatible with characters from the "advanced" PHB.

Similarly; there will be a basic set of monsters and the basic information one needs to DM. Mearls mentioned a while ago that he like DMing tutorials to be on the site instead of in a ($50) book, so I think "how to DM" stuff is in this document to.


This is the "Basic Set" of our era—the core rules for free online. It's like WoW letting people play the first 20 levels free.


This is just my own rampant speculation.

Thaumaturge.

I don't think "You can download a gimped version of the basic rules that doesn't reflect what you'll actually be playing at the table as PDFs!" is going to help WotC much. Really, if this is their plan, we can reasonably say that 5E isn't going to get very far. This is 2014. That would have been cool in 2000 (indeed, it WAS cool in 2000, what with the SRD and all that). Maybe. Now? Uhhh. Not so much. It's retro. Not in a good way.

If they are playing to lose, they will do only that.

If they are playing to win, though, what they will have is much more than that - basic rules in PDF form for people who want them, of course (which will be a minority of people who end up actually playing the game), but they need an online character builder (which saves online, not to local machines, primarily, just like they have for 4E), and they need online resources (which it seems they will be having), and they need apps for stuff like virtual character sheets.

Not PDFs. Online. Preferably mobile-friendly. Preferably app-integrated stuff (people prefer that to trying to visit websites on phones and tablets).

 

[Nilbog]

I think Hasbro has signed a deal with Nestle where you get a free character in every pack of
cereal

Going from the snippets posted on here from inside sources it is very difficult to work out what they have in mind, I would edge towards a char gen app, or some online suite of tools, I hope we get to find out at gen-con, if not before!

 

[Thaumaturge]

I don't think "You can download a gimped version of the basic rules that doesn't reflect what you'll actually be playing at the table as PDFs!" is going to help WotC much. Really, if this is their plan, we can reasonably say that 5E isn't going to get very far. This is 2014. That would have been cool in 2000 (indeed, it WAS cool in 2000, what with the SRD and all that). Maybe. Now? Uhhh. Not so much. It's retro. Not in a good way.

That other stuff you mention is cool, and I'd like it, too.

But I don't think what I'm talking about is best qualified as "gimped" or like the SRD. I'm talking about a fully playable game. The SRD was rules without much context. It wasn't for beginners. It was for veterans who wanted a quick rules reference. I'm thinking of almost the opposite. Something for beginners or casual players that has the basic rules and basic options but also has context and how to play information.

But now I'm defending a product I've just theorized the existence of.

Again, I'd love an app for my tablet and stuff on the web, and I don't disagree that those things are increasingly seen as necessary. I'm just talking about something else.

Thaumaturge.

 

[am181d]

Considering that this is what I've been recommending for months (a self-contained adventure with rules to run and pre-gens), I'm quite pleased. Yes, we all like to make our own characters, but this product isn't for us. It's for a DM to run with a group of people who've never played the game before.

I've played some of Wizard's D&D board games with non-RPGers, and they really took to the leveling mechanics and came to identify with their character. The low bar for entry is a feature not a bug.

And remember that the boxed set includes an adventure that spans five levels. That's approximately 8 sessions (i.e. 30+ hours). That is a tremendous deal. If a group gets the Starter Set, makes it through the full campaign, and wants more, do you really think they're going to feel ripped off?

For folks who are eager to create their own characters, they can use whatever Wizards provides online *or wait a month and buy the PHB*. Remember that this isn't a product to tide folks over until the PHB. *It's a product that Wizards wants to keep on the shelves for many years.*

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That other stuff you mention is cool, and I'd like it, too.

But I don't think what I'm talking about is best qualified as "gimped" or like the SRD. I'm talking about a fully playable game. The SRD was rules without much context. It wasn't for beginners. It was for veterans who wanted a quick rules reference. I'm thinking of almost the opposite. Something for beginners or casual players that has the basic rules and basic options but also has context and how to play information.

But now I'm defending a product I've just theorized the existence of.

Again, I'd love an app for my tablet and stuff on the web, and I don't disagree that those things are increasingly seen as necessary. I'm just talking about something else.

Thaumaturge.

It is gimped, though - most groups, let's be real, really most groups running 5E, are going to be using stuff like Feats, and other "optional" elements. So it's low-value to start with. Then you're making it download as the method of access, with apparent implication that it's a PDF. That's a losing strategy. Downloadable as an app as well as a PDF? That has value. Online accessible as well as downloadable? That has value. But something you have to download and then open in your PDF reader or ereader? That's just going to put casual people off. You want to get beginners playing now, you definitely need something interactive, not just a PDF or the like.

 

[Blackbrrd]

This is really the test of whether WotC are "playing to win" or not, with 5E.

If they really are, they will have both web-based online tools, and an app for chargen and character management (for both iOS and Android), as well as other online resources.

If they kind of are, they'll have probably either web-based tools or an app (maybe just for iOS).

If they aren't serious about 5E, they won't have any of that.

Non-4E players may not realize how astonishingly helpful the 4E character builder is for casual players (and the adventure builder for DMs), and probably don't have integrated auto-updated virtual character sheets on their mobiles and tablets - whereas 3/5 of the players at my table do. It's 2014. Hopefully WotC knows that.

[rant]
Regarding the last paragraph, I am a bit confused. The 4e character builder only works on windows with silverlight and is really really slow and creates character sheets that are 4pages at level 1 and quickly increase to 10+ pages. Part of the reason it's so helpful is that there are sooooooo many splatbooks for 4e. There are basically hundreds of feats - per class/race. If you want to update your character, you can't do it on your tablet, you have to start up a windows PC to do it. In addition, it costs 6$ a month to get this.

One of the players in my group used the character builder and created a character that was just ineffective. He had tried to optimize, but there are so many bad options in 4e that it's quite hard as a casual player to get anything out of it. Typically you have to select x class with y power and z1, z2 and z3 feats to be effective. I helped him out, which took something like an hour, sifting through powers and feats to find combinations that actually works well together. With hundreds of feats and powers to go through, there is nothing casual friendly about 4e.
[/rant]

What I hope for with 5e is a html 5 based character builder that doesn't require a subscription and where I can update my character from my tablet/smartphone without going to a windows PC. Alternatively, since 5e looks quite simple to handle without a character builder, an SRD in html5 (kind of like the one for d20) would also be appreciated. If I get the same slow, silverlight-based stuff again, I am going to be disappointed.

The advantage of going html5 instead of a java/silverlight/windows/iOS/OSX/Linux/android application is that it would work quite seemlessly through all my devices.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Guys... A Starter Set is not intended for experienced players of D&D. Especially those who have played multiple editions and other RPG games. This is not the red box of BECMI. I wish it was but at today's prices something like that would be closer to $40 probably and would require them a lot more development time. It is what it is.

To say that it is nearly impossible to do in 100 pages today what was done in 64 pages over 30 years ago is laughable. If that is indeed the case then the level of incompetence has reached critical mass.

When 4e came out, the character generator program let you make characters up to 3rd level for free. And it was pretty constantly updated.

I don't see why that would be a big issue here. "Here's your starter set, complete with pregens. Finished with that and want something else? Well, head over to Wizards.com and bang out your own character to print and use at your table."

It's not like Internet access or online tools are some sort of arcane secret handshake.

Heck, even the comment about being camping doesn't really ring true. In Canada, we're currently putting in wi-fi into national parks as I type this. How often are people truly without any access?

Requiring a computer for basic play of a pen & paper tabletop rpg is failboat city. Providing enhancements/tools and such are certainly welcome for those that want them, but if the game at the most basic level requires connection to online resources I will be avoiding it like a dead fish.

 

[Blackbrrd]

To say that it is nearly impossible to do in 100 pages today what was done in 64 pages over 30 years ago is laughable. If that is indeed the case then the level of incompetence has reached critical mass.

Have to agree with you here. But they might not have wanted to go that route. Which to me is understandable with most people connected 24/7 on their smartphones and you therefore have better ways of handling this.

Requiring a computer for basic play of a pen & paper tabletop rpg is failboat city. Providing enhancements/tools and such are certainly welcome for those that want them, but if the game at the most basic level requires connection to online resources I will be avoiding it like a dead fish.

This is 2014 you know, not 1999.

Hopefully you won't require* a computer, but an online device with a browser. For instance a smart phone or a tablet. Even my mother who turns 70 this summer has a smartphone, a laptop and wireless internet. How else do you do your banking, fill out your tax forms, order your stuff from amazon, etc etc? The same is true for all my friends.

If you don't have internet, you can just wait until November when everything is available in DTF (Dead Tree Format), it's not like those three months of extra waiting time will drive away many customers (assuming they have a good internet-strategy, not the half-assed 4e stuff).

*require if you want to run a campaign before november when everything is in printed format.