D&D 5E L&L for 6/2

[Morrus]

Within the context of the OGL, the relevant clause seems to be 5: "If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License."

There's two angles to that. First is that the sentence begins with an "If". You can, of course, use non-original material if it's OGC.

Secondly, "original material" relates to the expression, not to the idea. The idea of rolling a dice isn't original, but the words WotC use in the 4E Player's Handbook to explain how you roll a dice are original. If you explain in your book how to roll a dice, you can say the same thing, but you have to use your words, not WotC's.

So the idea of AEDU isn't a problem. It's just the words you use to describe it. Ideas (or more properly, inventions - products or processes) are covered by patent law, not copyright law. For example, WotC can challenge companies over cloning M:tG because they have been granted a patent covering certain specific original processes in the game (I'm not sure which - I don't play it).

But that's a whole different kettle of fish to what we're discussing. Patent law and the OGL don't intersect anywhere.

 

[Uchawi]

It sounds like the program for players to add content will be the replacement for DDI, and the big question is whether access to content will be available in hardcopy and digital, or just digital. That means the only way to gain access to non-core adventures (in FR) will be through a subscription.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

You know that's how lawyers work, right? That the practice of law is a very technical profession and doesn't rely on whimsy? Contracts, except for certain unusual situations, are interpreted according to the words on the page, because to do otherwise would devalue the very concept of a contract.

I am not a lawyer I don't even play one on tv... But I do know what I have seen in both my sisters divorce and my aunts law suit against her boss (both same court house diffrent judges) and both told the lawyers to stop playing games with words they would not put up with what they called bad faith argue ants. (Sorry I can not define legally)

The gist I got out of both, and jugde Judy is that a judge can and will ignore word games for common sense if they want to. So again it reminds me of a DM makeing a judgment call

And make no mistake no one in there right mind thinks they are ok twisting the 3.5 ogl to cover 4e so if you want a judge to play word games it really comes down to who has the better lawyer

 

[pemerton]

You can, of course, use non-original material if it's OGC.

Sure. But much of 4e is not OGC, I think, have never been designated as such and not being derivative of material that has been designated as such.

"original material" relates to the expression, not to the idea. The idea of rolling a dice isn't original, but the words WotC use in the 4E Player's Handbook to explain how you roll a dice are original. If you explain in your book how to roll a dice, you can say the same thing, but you have to use your words, not WotC's.

On my quick look over the OGL, "original material" is not defined. So I'm not sure that I agree with your construction of it.

But it doesn't matter, because the "and/or" means that even if your material is not original, you can declare it OGC if you otherwise have sufficient rights to do so eg because no one else enjoys copyright in respect of it. That's why I think, in trying to OGL-clone 4e, the issue of layout would be a big deal. I think that WotC can enjoy copyright in respect of their power and other formatting, and a lot of that formatting is fairly key to the useability and broader play experience of 4e.

Patent law and the OGL don't intersect anywhere.

I think they could intersect in this way, namely, that if something you wanted to declare OGC was the subject matter of a patent, then you would lack the rights necessary to so declare it.

But as far as I know nothing relevant to 4e is patented.

 

[pemerton]

my sisters divorce and my aunts law suit against her boss

You might find consumer contracts being adjudicated in a similar fashion.

But a lawsuit in respect of the OGL would be a purely commercial matter between two for-profit entities. I think it would unfold quite differently to a divorce or a workplace dispute. (I am not a practising lawyer, but I do teach law, including private law, in a respectable Australian university.)

 

[Morrus]

what they called bad faith argue ants. (Sorry I can not define legally)

Erm. Do you mean arguments?

The gist I got out of both, and jugde Judy

Judge Judy is a reality TV show optimized for ratings. I wouldn't look to it for actual legal advice!

 

[Morrus]

That's why I think, in trying to OGL-clone 4e, the issue of layout would be a big deal. I think that WotC can enjoy copyright in respect of their power and other formatting, and a lot of that formatting is fairly key to the useability and broader play experience of 4e.

What you're talking about is trade dress. It is specifically defined as Product Identity in the OGL. We don't need to theorize on that - it's a basic part of the process that all of us third-party-publishers have been following for, what, 14 years now? The OGL is a fairly venerable license that has seen very heavy use; it's pretty well understood these days.

 

[Mistwell]

[MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION], upthread, was suggesting that WotC could challenge the OGL itself, but I don't know what sort of challenges he has in mind.

I don't want to get into it. It would derail the thread, and always ends up in a big silly argument about something that's never going to happen anyway.

 

[pemerton]

I don't want to get into it.

Fair enough.

 

[Agamon]

[MENTION=4038]God[/MENTION] - since when did you start caring about OGL. In all the years I knew you, you never once talked about using an OGL product and, if memory serves, refused to use anything that didn't have the wotc seal of approval.

Perhaps he is a fickle and capricious god?