D&D 5E What If? Marketing D&D in Asia

[I'm A Banana]

I think [MENTION=177]Umbran[/MENTION] 's onto at least a bit of it.

The reason that TTRPGs are popular(ish) here in the Western world has a lot to do with the following

1. Widespread literacy from a fairly effective educational system.
2. The existence of the paperback novel as a form of media.
3. A tradition of mythical heroes and legends, especially morality tales told about individuals, in very stark terms.
4. A re-invention of those myths via that media.
5. A tradition of "war games" that simulated historical battles.
6. A middle class that consumed novels and games regularly enough to support a market.
7. A cultural zeitgeist that embraced that re-invention in a big way via college campuses ("Frodo Lives!") and the counterculture movement, including some psychedelics (clearly influenced both the music and the media that referenced LotR back in the day).
8. A "do-it-yourself" worldview that placed value on creatively adapting things that we're already familiar with (another example: Walt Disney).

Most countries in Asia probably have most of that list down pat. The X factor would be that cultural zeitgeist, but that might not be as important.

The first steps, were I to try and sell TTRPGs to Asia would be this: What stories and legends are familiar to everyone that talk about big heroes and big monsters? What are the fantastic legends that kids grow up wanting to play as and that adults like to tell or mention? Are there feudal-era/imperial-era/pre-colonial-era tales that still resonate with folks?

Then: what traditional games are out there that can be adapted or re-invented? What are the board games that everybody plays? What do old men do on park tables?

Step 3 is to combine them. For instance, take the game of Go as your base, and adapt it to playing out some version of, I don't know, Musashi. I don't know what that would look like, but you'd be synthesizing the traits that made D&D popular over here. I don't know if those would even be the relevant mythos/game!

The dash on top is the value of adding your own spin to it. This isn't THE game of Go, or THE tale of Musashi, its your particular unique take on both of them. It's a legend you created, a game you made. To take it out of the emphasis on the individual: it is something you did for your friends, for your fellow players, for your gaming group, a story you told with them for everyone's entertainment and enjoyment.

No idea if that would work or not, might be a silly idea, but it gets at the elements that combined over here to get the game to take off, minus, well, the sixties, but if you know how to recreate that, you'd be better off as a leader than a game designer.

 

[doctorhook]

Where did 60% come from? We have an unemployment problem but it's not THAT bad.

I realize Scrivener already PM'd you about this, but for anyone else in the thread who isn't aware: [sblock=Economics lesson]Basically, unemployment rates are hard tricky to measure, because there's a few different ways you can count them. Typically, unemployment rates only reflect people who are actively looking for a job but don't have one; this can result in numbers that are a lot lower than expected. Students, for example, might be training to improve their hiring chances, but they typically won't be considered unemployed. At the end of the day, discussions of unemployment rates boil down to discussions about counting, which can be politically-loaded if someone wants the numbers to reflect a particular perspective.[/sblock]

While others have made some good points, I'll add the following:

Most ttRPG offerings to date have been linked to fairly Euro- and American-centric themes and tropes, linked to Western media, literature, legend and mythologies. Much like literature tends to be popular only within the culture that spawns the work in question, I would expect the same of RPGs. When Asian authors produce a game as strongly linked to Asian culture as D&D is linked to Western culture, you might see it catch on, and probably not before that.

I agree, and this is the point that I had been bringing up in the original thread.

OTOH, this forked thread has brought up some great examples of Asian markets embracing western-style fantasy. I wonder if this isn't similar to western fascination over samurais, ninjas, and kung-fu: examples of these elements abound in western media (to the point where some elements, such as ninjas, have essentially been naturalized into western vocabulary and culture), but are still usually framed in western terms. I imagine that Korean fans of MedievalEuro-style fantasy knights and wizards likewise frame their objects of fascination in a culturally-Korean perspective.

The point about Japan being a longtime (if silent) consumer of D&D is pretty interesting. Not coincidentally, for many years Japan was considered the only first-world country in Asia. Even less coincidentally, Japan also had a very close economic and military relationship with the United States in the decades following WWII. I'm wondering now if this connection isn't related to the popularity of D&D among American soldiers. (Many soldiers seem to be gamers; outside of war, soldiers on deployment seem to have a lot of downtime without a lot to occupy themselves--no women, no liquor, and nowhere to go.)

 

[Wrathamon]

For china you would need to do more than just localize it.

art style - china seems to prefer "pretty" not "gritty"
western version of fantasy look, story and feel (base it on romance of the 3 kingdoms and Monkey King) They are getting more interested in western (Japan is much more accepting)
skeletons and other taboos to avoid, such as gods and other alignments would need to be handled differently I am guessing.

Its hard enough for american/western video games to work in China or japan, a niche table top game is going to be a much harder sell. Also, culturally, it might even be seen as "evil" like it was 30 years ago in the US.

 

[dd.stevenson]

There are a good few TTRPGs written by Japanese gamers, for the Japanese market. Whatever holds the market back here, I don't believe it's lack of local culture themed RPGs.

TBH, and in response to the original post, if I were in charge of marketing TTRPGs to the Japanese market, I would probably switch jobs. I don't think I would be willing to accept professional responsibility for the outcome of such a marketing campaign. Based on what I've seen, it's just not a very good bet.

Having said that, there is of course a rock-solid niche TTRPG community, and they're not likely to die off any time soon. So there's that.

 

[Hussar]

I dunno. Magic the Gathering is still huge here in Japan. I see it being played and sold at hobby shops all over the place. So, it's not like "western fantasy" isn't popular here. It goes over pretty well.

When I was in Taiwan a few months ago, I saw the D&D Kre-O at toy stores, so, we're already starting to see some inroads here.

I've played RPG's from time to time with students, and, honestly, I don't see any difference. The reason you don't get inroads here is because there was no initial push from the fad days getting that toe hold. Then you have a mess of cRPG's which hold lots of the attention here.

 

[WuM1nG]

A few comments have been made about marketing D&D to Asia and I thought I would throw out a few questions:

1. How would you do it?
2. Bearing in mind that Asia is not a monoculture, how would you do it in different countries?
3. Do you think there's any potential?
4. Why hasn't Asia already embraced TTRPGs?

Asia is a big place, and I can only speak for Singapore. Even as an English-speaking country, it's still very rare to find RPG players here. There's alot of Magic players, people that play CRPGS and MMORPGS, wargamers and even board-gamers but comparatively much less people that are actually playing TTRPGs.

I am not really sure why, but one theory I have is that Singaporeans prefer the rules, structures, maths and min-maxing of boardgames and wargames instead of the open-ended, more cooperative storytelling nature of RPGs. We used to have a regular D&D public organized play that for some reason, eventually trended towards something like an MMORPG (it died out pretty quickly after that).

That being said, even the profile of gamers in Singapore are different from those that I played with in the UK. The gamers I mix with in Singapore tend to have a more light-hearted approach to RPGs, while those in the UK seem to take it much more seriously and would delve into the world, details, games etc more extensively. That's just my perception, and could be more of a function of who I game with at various stages of life.

 

[doctorhook]

When I was in Taiwan a few months ago, I saw the D&D Kre-O at toy stores, so, we're already starting to see some inroads here.

I'm not sure if that counts as an inroad. Are people buying those in Taiwan? Hell, are people even buying them in North America? I see D&D Kre-O in the clearance bin at my local Walmart.

Asia is a big place, and I can only speak for Singapore. Even as an English-speaking country, it's still very rare to find RPG players here. There's alot of Magic players, people that play CRPGS and MMORPGS, wargamers and even board-gamers but comparatively much less people that are actually playing TTRPGs.

That sounds suspiciously like the situation I'm familiar with in Western Canada. All of those things are popular among geeks here, but RPGs are definitely the minority hobby (at least if visibility of hobby is any indication).

I am not really sure why, but one theory I have is that Singaporeans prefer the rules, structures, maths and min-maxing of boardgames and wargames instead of the open-ended, more cooperative storytelling nature of RPGs. We used to have a regular D&D public organized play that for some reason, eventually trended towards something like an MMORPG (it died out pretty quickly after that).

I gotta say, I don't really see "structures, maths, and min-maxing" as a strike against RPGs. My experience has been that those are precisely the aspects of RPGs that the new players I've recruited latch onto (especially in rules-heavy systems like 3E, Pathfinder, and 4E).

That being said, even the profile of gamers in Singapore are different from those that I played with in the UK. The gamers I mix with in Singapore tend to have a more light-hearted approach to RPGs, while those in the UK seem to take it much more seriously and would delve into the world, details, games etc more extensively. That's just my perception, and could be more of a function of who I game with at various stages of life.

I think it might be, given that your experience in Singapore so closely parallels my own in Canada. Most of the players I've brought to D&D are CRPGers/MMOers who like action, killing monsters, and getting XP and treasure. Genuine "roleplaying" has been a slow sell to them, even though they've taken fast to D&D. Overall, I think your players are just casual TRPGers who use D&D as a break from other games, because they sound exactly like mine.

 

[Hussar]

I'm not sure if that counts as an inroad. Are people buying those in Taiwan? Hell, are people even buying them in North America? I see D&D Kre-O in the clearance bin at my local Walmart.

Well it's a start if nothing else. It was the first time I'd seen a physical DnD branded product anywhere. I've been living around Asia for 15 years so this got me pretty excited.

 

[doctorhook]

Well it's a start if nothing else. It was the first time I'd seen a physical DnD branded product anywhere. I've been living around Asia for 15 years so this got me pretty excited.

True enough. I'm a Lego fan, so on the one hand I was happy to hear about official D&D bricks and minifigs, but on the other I was disappointed that it's with a perceived-as-inferior brand. I realize Hasbro produces Kre-O, so it's unlikely they'd allow any IP under their umbrella to be licensed to a competitor. I also recall an old interview with someone at WotC where they mentioned having approached Lego about producing an official line of D&D products, but were rebuffed--Lego is apparently very picky about the licenses it produces. (Given that even LotR-branded products aren't considered particularly good sellers by Lego, it's safe to assume D&D Lego would have faired even worse.)

I suppose I'm suspicious of D&D tie-in products, for fear they'll introduce my hobby to people in an embarrassing way.

 

[Hussar]

True enough. I'm a Lego fan, so on the one hand I was happy to hear about official D&D bricks and minifigs, but on the other I was disappointed that it's with a perceived-as-inferior brand. I realize Hasbro produces Kre-O, so it's unlikely they'd allow any IP under their umbrella to be licensed to a competitor. I also recall an old interview with someone at WotC where they mentioned having approached Lego about producing an official line of D&D products, but were rebuffed--Lego is apparently very picky about the licenses it produces. (Given that even LotR-branded products aren't considered particularly good sellers by Lego, it's safe to assume D&D Lego would have faired even worse.)

I suppose I'm suspicious of D&D tie-in products, for fear they'll introduce my hobby to people in an embarrassing way.

Heh. I honestly don't think there are any embarrassing ways. Little personal anecdote: Shock and surprise, I like the Marvel movies and cartoons. I know, it's totally out of character right? But, my girls have zero interest in any of them. They just completely turn up their noses.

Until Disney XD here started showing Disk Wars Avengers. It's a tie in for some Pokemon style game using Marvel properties. Totally borrowing (what I consider the worst) parts from standard Japanese anime fare - power up scenes for changing costumes, slow pans, the whole bit.

The girls eat it up. They love it. Now they know the characters. They are getting familiar with a large swath of the Marvel characters and suddenly, me suggesting watching Iron Man or Spider Man isn't out of line. They are starting to show interest. Heck, they've even started perusing a few of my old comic books.

So, to me, that's exactly what WOTC and Hasbro is trying to do. Appeal to people who have no interest in the product by trying a totally different approach. More power to them. I hope it works.