D&D 5E Starter Set Command Spell

[Remathilis]

View attachment 62205

Can of Worms opening in 5...4...3...

This does NOTHING for me. Its bland, legalese jargon-spew with a pretty-little italic bow on top to keep int from being code. Sure, it sums up everything mechanically you'd need (well, maybe not) but it tells no story. Why is my foe stunned? Why does it slide 3+ squares and not just move its movement? Why is he prone? What did I say to him? Why is the gelatinous cube groveling?

Similarly, the 4e version has no "limit" on words (A single command is not a single word). My Command could be to "take a seat" or "walk toward me" or "Why don't you sit right there and think about your actions"

Also, the 4e version does not have the drop command option. (I guess you could slide a foe away and call it flee).

Still, even 3e's very jargony version (Target: 1 living creature) at least reads with ideas and flavor. 4e's is a math problem: Compare X vs. Y. If X > Y, then Y is A, B, or C else Null [return] is all I see. You could replace the italic type with "you dress in drag and dance the hula. All those who see it cannot help but watch. Some faint, flee in terror, or approach you with their tongues dragging on the floor." and it wouldn't change any of the mechanics under it. To some, that's great. To me, that's reducing the wonder of magic to its most curt and terse form.

Thank Pelor for whole-language D&D magic again!

 

[I'm A Banana]

The funny thing is, the 4E version seems simpler, but...I could, if I had to, already adjudicate 5e command from memory, and would be pretty sure I could do so 4 months from now, at least close enough, whereas I would not be comfortable doing that with the 4e version.

Plus, I do find having some more text, versus having to double check keywords, to be easier. And, on top of all that, is that there will be fewer spells then powers.

I think there's a clear cause and effect in 5e that 4e doesn't have, a story to tell. If you know that the command spell makes someone obey a one-word command you issue, you know 95% of everything you need to cast the spell or run it in play, and can rule on the corner cases well. And if you know that this is a spell that makes someone lose their next turn, you know all that you need to know to adjudicate even some corner cases -- its limits are pretty clear.

In 4e, the important things to know are that you can daze the enemy and knock them prone or slide them. While that effect works with the fluff, it doesn't flow from it quite as naturally. You don't issue a one-word command to someone to daze them and knock them down or make them move, but if you issue a one-word command to someone, it might create the same effect. That instinct 4e has to just tell you what happens in the game works a bit against an easy flow of logic there, even though following the logic might lead to much the same consequence (as it does in 5e).

Though it is true that in 4e you never HAD to memorize the spell or make a judgement call. Whether or not that's good is...probably something reasonable people can differ on.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

To those who don´t ike language dependancy:

how hard is it for a charater to memorize a few simpe words i a different language...

dealing with orcs: learn 5 orcish words...

or just add Material component: paper with commands in the target creature´s language. This component is not consuend in casting the spell and can be used over and over again...

That achieves roughly the same effect as saying Divine power overrides misunderstanding, but seems to me less cool. YMMV.

 

[orangefruitbat]

"KNEEL before Zod!"

(My new Cleric will be called Zod).

 

[TerraDave]

Though it is true that in 4e you never HAD to memorize the spell or make a judgement call. Whether or not that's good is...probably something reasonable people can differ on.

If I was a player, I could probably memorize the 4E one eventually, but I know I could use the 5E one without looking down after just a few iterations. (Though not all my players have been capable of this...either 4e and I don't think the 5E version either). As a DM, I certainly have to make the occasional call, and its nice to just know what the power/spell does. And there are NPCs and special cases (you would be surprised at the number of times someone forgets their character sheet).

I am not saying 4E powers are hard to use. But 5E spells, more words or not, could still be more user friendly.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I am not saying 4E powers are hard to use. But 5E spells, more words or not, could still be more user friendly.

No. It's not a more/less thing.

It's a different thing.

Both games work on a basically different principles here. You are welcome to prefer one, but it doesn't make the other more or less user-friendly.

 

[Snapdragyn]

My problem is that I can only memorize a few spells per day.

Could someone xp this for me, please?

 

[Remathilis]

"KNEEL before Zod!"

(My new Cleric will be called Zod).

[video=youtube;togjOLp3kgw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=togjOLp3kgw[/video]

 

[Stormonu]

That would get way too powerful way too fast. Command is basically a 1-round stun; you trade one action of yours (casting the spell) for one action of the enemy's (its next turn). The potency of a stun effect increases drastically with each additional round. A 3-round stun, with no chance to break out, is pretty much a death sentence if you fail the initial save.

No, I think you misunderstand - I wasn't talking about increasing how many rounds Command lasts, but how many words you could use. For example, being able to Command someone "Run and Hide" (3 words) as a 3rd level spell or "Jump off the cliff" (4 words) as a 4th level spell (but the latter would likely fail since it would cause harm to the affected individual). Still would last 1 round.

Besides, as far as multiple stun rounds go, there's always been good old Hold Person/Hold Monster, which was a 2nd level spell and until 3.5, you only got one save. Not to mention Sleep either, a 1st level spell that for the longest time was the best method to dispatch enemies without worrying about them having a chance to strike back.

 

[CM]

Not really happy with the return of the wall of text for what should be a simple combat spell, but it's certainly not a deal-breaker. Now instead of casters staring at their power sheets they'll be staring at the PHB.

The 4e power format made everything clear-cut, which has its advantages and disadvantages. Some might see them as a straitjacket but I never had a problem letting players tweak the effect of their abilities slightly.

For ritual-type spells where a lengthy, all-encompassing definition is necessary, I'm happy to have the wall of text. I found a lot of 4e's rituals frustratingly vague or limited in their effects.