immediate and Swift actions

[Dandu]

You seem aware of your own inexperience enough to ask that it not be held against you, but not so much that you consider that more experienced players have insight into the system that you lack.

Ok, actual question: Is a character's next turn on the same round as his previous turn?

In other words: When is a round over?

 

[kexmal]

You seem aware of your own inexperience enough to ask that it not be held against you, but not so much that you consider that more experienced players have insight into the system that you lack.

Ok, actual question: Is a character's next turn on the same round as his previous turn?

In other words: When is a round over?

HAHA a round is over at the last INIT count a spells duration is over at the casters INIT count....
So if im a INIT 5 then I cast a spell for 2 rounds in two rounds at INIT 5 my spell ends... But the ROUND ends at INIT 3 cause we will say INIT 3 is the last in the order That is clear enough if you read the magic section of PHB.

 

[kexmal]

anyway thgt is irrelevant to what I am saying... please please read page 7 of rules compendium and tell me WHY IM WRONG i dont care if Im wrong just want an actually textual supported reason why im wrong... and dont rely on the descritpion of immediate action cause top of page 7 obviuously supercedes that....

 

[NuSair]

Just catching up on this thread and I do have a hard copy and PDF of the Rules Compendium. Just a quick copy and paste:

Introduction
The book you hold in your hands is the defi nitive guide for
how to play the 3.5 revision of the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS
Roleplaying Game. Years in the making, it gathers resources
from a wide variety of supplements, rules errata, and rules
clarifications to provide an authoritative guide for playing
the D&D game. It updates and elucidates the rules, as well
as expanding on them in ways that make it more fun and
easier to play. When a preexisting core book or supplement
differs with the rules herein, Rules Compendium is
meant to take precedence. If you have a question on how
to play D&D at the table, this book is meant to answer
that question.
Rules Compendium isn’t just a compilation of the rules
you need to play D&D. It’s also a celebration of the 3rd
Edition of the world’s most popular roleplaying game.
Those who’ve worked on the game in past years have taken
the time to comment on the rules and share experiences
with you in these pages. You’ll find anecdotes, house
rules, history, and more in these asides and essays. If
the rules in this book don’t show you anything new, the
designers, developers, and editors who commented here
just might.

 

[NuSair]

From the Rules Compendium:
SWIFT ACTION
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but it
represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action.
You can take a swift action any time during your turn, but
you can perform only one swift action per turn.
IMMEDIATE ACTION
An immediate action consumes a tiny amount of time.
However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be
performed at any time during a round, even when it isn’t your
turn. Using an immediate action on your turn counts as your
swift action for that turn. If you use an immediate action
when it isn’t your turn, you can’t use another immediate
action or a swift action until after your next turn. You can’t
use an immediate action when you’re flat-footed.

 

[Dandu]

HAHA a round is over at the last INIT count a spells duration is over at the casters INIT count....
So if im a INIT 5 then I cast a spell for 2 rounds in two rounds at INIT 5 my spell ends... But the ROUND ends at INIT 3 cause we will say INIT 3 is the last in the order That is clear enough if you read the magic section of PHB.

If, as you say, the round ends when the person lowest in the initiative order has acted, would it be possible for the person at INIT 5 to cast an immediate action spell after the round has ended (in other words after the person with INIT 3 has gone) but before his turn at INIT 5?

 

[kexmal]

From the Rules Compendium:
SWIFT ACTION
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but it
represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action.
You can take a swift action any time during your turn, but
you can perform only one swift action per turn.
IMMEDIATE ACTION
An immediate action consumes a tiny amount of time.
However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be
performed at any time during a round, even when it isn’t your
turn. Using an immediate action on your turn counts as your
swift action for that turn. If you use an immediate action
when it isn’t your turn, you can’t use another immediate
action or a swift action until after your next turn. You can’t
use an immediate action when you’re flat-footed.

Yes and quote the top left of this page which is the problem text.

 

[kexmal]

If, as you say, the round ends when the person lowest in the initiative order has acted, would it be possible for the person at INIT 5 to cast an immediate action spell after the round has ended (in other words after the person with INIT 3 has gone) but before his turn at INIT 5?

Ha that is upto the Dm but the round must end sometime right? If the player does not use its immediate action BEFROE the INIT 3 guy went then its the NEXT round. But that being said you can use an immediate whenever you want as long as you havent used up a swift or immediate in the previous round so lets say PC 1 used immediate at INIT 4 then they cant use another immediate at end. LKets say player did not use immediate or swift then can player interrupt at the VERY end of the INIT count??? Maybe maybe not but that is irrelevant to my question... My question is if you can use both swift and immediate in same round not whether you can use an immediate at the very very end of a round I would maybe say yes BUT that is again irrelevant to MY question.

 

[Dandu]

anyway thgt is irrelevant to what I am saying... please please read page 7 of rules compendium and tell me WHY IM WRONG i dont care if Im wrong just want an actually textual supported reason why im wrong... and dont rely on the descritpion of immediate action cause top of page 7 obviuously supercedes that....

Oh where to begin...
1. Primary source rule. In this case, the description of the abilities takes priority over the general overview at the top of page 7 that you so cherish.
2. Swift actions are introduced in the Miniature's Handbook, and Immediate actions in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. They are referenced and defined in the Complete Arcane, Complete Mage Races of Destiny, and every other book that uses swift or immediate actions - quite a few by the end of 3.5E. There is never one single hint anywhere that there the a 1/round limit you are getting from the Rules Compendium text.
3. So, we are left to conclude that either the Rules Compendium is introducing a new rule, or that generalizations such as "humans have four limbs, five digits on each limb, and a brain" allow for cripples and politicians.

If the player does not use its immediate action BEFROE the INIT 3 guy went then its the NEXT round. But that being said you can use an immediate whenever you want as long as you havent used up a swift or immediate in the previous round so lets say PC 1 used immediate at INIT 4 then they cant use another immediate at end. LKets say player did not use immediate or swift then can player interrupt at the VERY end of the INIT count??? Maybe maybe not but that is irrelevant to my question...

But let's say they used a swift on their turn at INIT 5, and then wanted to use an immediate right after INIT 3. Would this be acceptable?

 

[delericho]

Are you saying that the Rules Compendium introduced this general rule, and that it previously did not exist?

Swift and Immediate actions were introduced in the Expanded Psionics Handbook*, and are repeated in several books after that. They also appear in the SRD.

As noted, the Rules Compendium is supposed to be the definitive source for 3.5e rules (which is rather unfortunate, as I really don't like that book).

(And, FWIW, I agree with you on pretty much everything you say on this thread wrt Swift and Immediate actions.)

* Edit: You note in the post above that Swift actions were actually introduced in the Miniatures Handbook. As I don't have that book, I won't argue that!