immediate and Swift actions

[kexmal]

Actually Ill ask you the same thing? Where do you get your info in terms of your view? Meaning what book tells you you can use both a swift and an immediate in the same round?? Im curious actually.

 

[kexmal]

Yeah PHB 2 is the closest i can get but it says the same as rules Comp 9but it doesnt have a break down like rules comp of exactly what actions you can perform in a round). And as far as I know rule comp is a reference to be used as RAW because the rules are ambiguous as hell and the rules comp doesnt even help too much... but it may be one of the first comprehensve rules book that deals with both swift and immediate and action economy... other books deal with swift others immediate others both swift and immediate but rules comp makes a stand on action economy it SEEMS.

 

[Dandu]

Actually Ill ask you the same thing? Where do you get your info in terms of your view? Meaning what book tells you you can use both a swift and an immediate in the same round?? Im curious actually.

Let's start at the very beginning
A very good place to start
When you read you begin with A-B-C
When you play you begin with P-H-B
P-H-B, P-H-B
The first three letters just happen to be
P-H-B, P-H-B


If you look in any errata document, you will see the primary source rule
Which tells you the priority of different rules sources.
Now, the Rules Compendium is not a primary source,
Therefore, it can go suck it.

 

[kexmal]

Let's start at the very beginning
A very good place to start
When you read you begin with A-B-C
When you play you begin with P-H-B
P-H-B, P-H-B
The first three letters just happen to be
P-H-B, P-H-B


If you look in any errata document, you will see the primary source rule
Which tells you the priority of different rules sources.
Now, the Rules Compendium is not a primary source,
Therefore, it can go suck it.

What of course it is a primary book ALSO no errata has trump rules compendium on this issue. Rules comp trumps PHB and DMG as they say in the intro. Wizards wrote that rule comp trumps PHB and DMG. Also you are barking up the wrong tree when 3.5e PHB and DMG came out they didnt even talk about immediate actions. Rules comp trumps PHB and DMG in that sense as they say in intro errata trumps all but no errata has said you can use both a swift and an immediate in the same round point me if I am wrong.
LOL that link doesnt give me anything and the post says "jedi cousel" is number 5 which is a joke obviously. So, rules comp trumps PHB and DMG as what it says in the intro to rules comp. ALSO PHB and DMG and errata DONT help 9nor does rules by tables or glossary text etc, that was a bad link to give cause it simply doesnt helkp this issue, simple because DMG and PHB and errata doesnt have anything to say about immediate actions).

 

[kexmal]

why quote another thread when you can look in rules comp and it tells you THAT is the authoritative rules book it trumps ALL excpet errata. That being said rules comp doesnt have feat rules or spell rules, etc. That is why others dont refewr to rules comp BUT in this case it has action economy rules that arent trumped by anything

 

[kexmal]

Similarly spells compendium trumps all other resources for spells (except errata made after the spell compendium). But it is limited in that NOT all spells are reproduced in spells compendium BUt the ones that are are the final say so.

 

[kexmal]

Actually i dont care. Im just saying what I read and I may be disagreed with. Have a good night for sure and I definitely respect your opinion and I really hope im wrong but just want good textual evidence for it. That being said gnight and have a great day tomorrow.

 

[MarkB]

Kexmal, I think your confusion may stem from the fact that "round" is not an absolute term. It doesn't necessarily mean "the period from the highest-initiative turn to the lowest-initiative turn" so much as "the period from the end of one creature's turn until the end of that creature's next turn".

A creature uses a Swift action on their turn. Then their turn ends. From THAT creature's perspective, their current round also ends.

Then, on another creature's turn, they use an Immediate action. That uses their Swift action for their next turn. On their next turn they don't get to use a Swift action. But as soon as that turn ends, their personal Round ends as well, and they can again use an Immediate action if needed.

So long as you keep this concept of rounds in mind, you'll find that there's no instance in which a character will use more than one Immediate OR Swift action per round.

 

[Dandu]

You're the one with access to the Rules Compendium, so I have to ask: Does the text of the Swift Action and Immediate Action differ from those that have been posted? In other words, has the text been updated to reflect a 1/round limit for Swift or Immediate actions? Or does everything hinge upon one sentence whose implications are never hinted at through the entire publication history of Dungeons and Dragons, 3.5 Edition?

 

[kexmal]

Kexmal, I think your confusion may stem from the fact that "round" is not an absolute term. It doesn't necessarily mean "the period from the highest-initiative turn to the lowest-initiative turn" so much as "the period from the end of one creature's turn until the end of that creature's next turn".

A creature uses a Swift action on their turn. Then their turn ends. From THAT creature's perspective, their current round also ends.

Then, on another creature's turn, they use an Immediate action. That uses their Swift action for their next turn. On their next turn they don't get to use a Swift action. But as soon as that turn ends, their personal Round ends as well, and they can again use an Immediate action if needed.

So long as you keep this concept of rounds in mind, you'll find that there's no instance in which a character will use more than one Immediate OR Swift action per round.

Thank you mark but i am definitely not confused... please read previous posts. i know what a round is and a turn i think you guys are confused in that the descritpion of immediate actions is screwy BUT read page 7 top left of rules compendium it makes it clear you can take either a swift OR an immediate. Just like you can take a move and standard OR a full-round. Excluive "or". Tell me that that use of "or" on page 7 of rules compendium is inclusive and im on baord but you cant cause its ambiguous text (meaning its upto DM). But contextually (considering the use of "or" in the PREVIOUS sentence is unambiguously exclusive) I have no reason to assume the use of "or" in the NEXT sentence is not as well exclusive. Please dont tell me I dont know what a round is maybe your just wrong eh???
HAHA Im not the one that says you can use more than one during a round but ponder this: a PC uses a swift action on his turn during round X, and on NOT his turn during round X he uses an immediate. That I am saying is not allowed BUt it is what people are saying is allowed. So you are wrong to say that is it IMPOSSIBLE to use a swift and immediate in the same round if what dandu and others are sayiing is TRUE then of course you can use a swift and an immediate in the same round I am denying this. What you have said is just confused. Meaning saying: "So long as you keep this concept of rounds in mind, you'll find that there's no instance in which a character will use more than one Immediate OR Swift action per round." Is just confused and not relevant. If others are right then your wrong if mI am right you are right but NOt for the reasons you give. Actually I think YOUr confusing rounds and turns there are NO personal rounds 9for spell duration and duration yes BUT not for rounds per se, yes a spell duration starts on the turhn of the person casting BUT that is spell duration and duration NOT rounds perse).