immediate and Swift actions

[kexmal]

If it is your turn (not round, turn), then you can take a swift action, or an immediate action, but not both.

If it is not your turn (and you are not flatfooted), you cannot take swift actions, but you can take an immediate action, which eats up your swift action for your next turn (that point in combat when your character gets to perform most actions, such as moving, attacking, etc).

Cool, what you say is totally consistent with what I am saying actually. My question is not about WHEN you can take immediate actions but WHETHER you can take one IF you have already taken a swift in the round. What I am saying is this. Lets say nI DONT take a swift on my TURN. I CAN take an immediate and it uses up my swift for NEXT turn. Lets say I do take a swift on MY TURN. I CANT use an immediate. So, I can only use an immediate if I have NOT used my swift AND I lose my NEXT swift. So immediates are a tax as they should be. And what you have said doesnt address what it says on page 7 top left corner of rules compendium. You need to convince me that that "or" which in the previous sentence is used in the exclusive sense is NOW used in the inclusive sense.

 

[Dandu]

Cool, what you say is totally consistent with what I am saying actually. My question is not about WHEN you can take immediate actions but WHETHER you can take one IF you have already taken a swift in the round. What I am saying is this. Lets say nI DONT take a swift on my TURN. I CAN take an immediate and it uses up my swift for NEXT turn. Lets say I do take a swift on MY TURN. I CANT use an immediate. So, I can only use an immediate if I have NOT used my swift AND I lose my NEXT swift.

If you
1. Take a swift action on your turn, then
2. End your turn, but
3. Find yourself in need of an immediate action spell, say Feather Fall, you
4. Cast it during someone else's turn and
5. Use up your swift action for your next turn.

 

[kexmal]

If you
1. Take a swift action on your turn, then
2. End your turn, but
3. Find yourself in need of an immediate action spell, say Feather Fall, you
4. Cast it during someone else's turn and
5. Use up your swift action for your next turn.

I want to follow you and I understand what you are saying just disagree. If you use a swift to cast a quickened spell then you cannot also use a immediate to cast featherfall in the same round. You lost out on that. At least that is what I am saying I am not saying Im right but reiterating your view in a numbered format doesnt help. Please attack page 7 top left corner I would love for it to be an inclusive "or" but by context it is not.

 

[kexmal]

As I said RAW by what i read says: I can only use an immediate if I have NOT used my swift AND I lose my NEXT swift.

 

[Dandu]

I want to follow you and I understand what you are saying just disagree. If you use a swift to cast a quickened spell then you cannot also use a immediate to cast featherfall in the same round. You lost out on that. At least that is what I am saying I am not saying Im right but reiterating your view in a numbered format doesnt help. Please attack page 7 top left corner I would love for it to be an inclusive "or" but by context it is not.

I don't own the book, and given the level of emotional investment you have in being right, I do not trust your account of the rules.

I will, however, go to the WotC website, brows the D&D terminology glossary for 3rd edition, and find you the definition of Immediate Action.

Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time -- even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action (instead of a free action, as stated in the spell description in thePlayer's Handbook), since the spell can be cast at any time.
Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.

So we can agree that immediate actions eat into swift actions.

The reverse, however does not appear to be true.

 

[kexmal]

Maybe you guys dont understand the diff between inclusive and exclusive "or". Alright it says: you can take s standard AND a move OR a fullround action. If that OR was inclusive that would mean you can take a standard and a move and a full-round action in the same round... obviously that use of "or" is exclusive.

 

[kexmal]

I don't own the book, and given the level of emotional investment you have in being right, I do not trust your account of the rules.

I will, however, go to the WotC website, brows the D&D terminology glossary for 3rd edition, and find you the definition of Immediate action.



So we can agree that immediate actions eat into swift actions.

TOTALLY I agree with that (about the emotional investment though I disagree actually I would rather have it the other way my emotions tell me to let it go as your saying, but dont think that is true, emotiions and words are different)

 

[Dandu]

Maybe you guys dont understand the diff between inclusive and exclusive "or". Alright it says: you can take s standard AND a move OR a fullround action. If that OR was inclusive that would mean you can take a standard and a move and a full-round action in the same turn... obviously that use of "or" is exclusive.

I understand the difference, I just don't trust that you are giving a faithful reproduction of the text in which the "or" comes from.

Would you kindly settle this issue by posting a picture or screenshot of the relevant rules?

 

[kexmal]

I understand the difference, I just don't trust that you are giving a faithful reproduction of the text in which the "or" comes from.

Would you kindly settle this issue by posting a picture or screenshot of the relevant rules?

I have actually given a direct quote twice from page 7 top left of rules compedium. I have hard copy but here it is again from my PDF: During a normal round, you can perform a standard actionand a move action, or you can perform a full-round action.
You can also perform an immediate action or a swift action,
and as many free actions as your DM allows. You can always
take a move action in place of a standard action. Activities
can also be undertaken that are parts of other actions but
not actions in and of themselves. In some situations, such
as during a surprise round, your activity, and thereby your
actions, might be restricted.
Free, full-round, immediate, move, standard, and swift are
action types. An action’s type tells you how long the action
takes to perform within the framework of the combat round.
It also tells you how movement is treated.
See Movement, page 90, for more on movement. The
Actions in Combat table, page 8, details many possible actions
and their parameters.

 

[Dandu]

I believe you. No man would willingly space out the text in such a fashion.

Before I go any further though, I am curious: what does the Rules Compendium have to say about swift and immediate actions? Does the text differ from what has been discussed thus far?