D&D 5E Additive versus subtractive modularity

[Emerikol]

I'm trying to figure out why you can't just remove second wind if you don't like it. Why does something need to replace it or the designer need to say you can or whatever other argument I don't understand need to happen?

I guess I've answered this a half dozen times but I'll answer it again.

If you held a gun to my head and said have fun with 5e, houserule as you wish, I could convert it to a game I could enjoy I'm sure. In fact perhaps without more than a page or two of houserules. So I am not disagreeing with you on that point.

The point is that there are a lot of "D&D" makers out there. Tons of D&D making companies. They may not call themselves D&D officially but we know they are competing in the exact same marketspace. So I could support a company that ignores my playstyle or I could support one that at least tries to support my playstyle. So I choose to support those that don't openly ignore me. I have a degree of loyalty to D&D, I wouldn't really say Wotc, but after 4e and now 5e, I'm losing that loyalty fast. I'm thinking I need to find a D&D type company that really cares about my approach to the game.

Now if that company produces an off rule that just isn't exactly to my liking I will happily houserule it. Just like I would have houseruled 5e if I felt they were really including all playstyles. I don't feel like they are doing that.

It's basically association. If you know a group doesn't like you do you keep pushing your way into their get togethers or do you go find new friends that do like you. I'm not threatening to burn down Wotc nor am I hating Mike Mearls. I'm just recognizing that he doesn't care for people in my camp enough to include them. Okay. I get it.

 

[MechaPilot]

What is hilarious about it all is that they put two of the most offensive things on the fighter class. You could put those on nearly any other class besides maybe the rogue and get by with it. It's almost like they are teasing. Yes we will give you a simple fighter like you've been wanting but oh wait we are going to doll it up with all kinds of stuff you'll hate.

HDs are major and I suspect will only be dialed down and not eliminated. When a non-magical character decides "I'm going to restore hit points" the problems begin conceptually.

I don't know if the slow healing from resting module will remove HDs or if it will be similar to the slow healing variant from the first four or five packets (where a long rest restored no HPs but it restored HDs equal to 1 + your Con mod which you could spend as many or as few as you chose for HP recovery due to the long rest).

I do have to say though, I can largely support your playstyle with regard to being anti-martial healing with a module right now off the top of my head.

Emerikol module (1st try)
HDs & Resting: HDs do not exist. Short rests provide no healing. At the end of a long rest you regain 1 HP per level.
Second Wind: Replace second wind with the Toughness feat.
Survivor: Only functions during combat and only provides temporary HPs instead of actual recovery.

 

[Emerikol]

Emerikol module (1st try)
HDs & Resting: HDs do not exist. Short rests provide no healing. At the end of a long rest you regain 1 HP per level.
Second Wind: Replace second wind with the Toughness feat.
Survivor: Only functions during combat and only provides temporary HPs instead of actual recovery.

You probably could have copied this from my own suggestions I put out some time ago on the wotc boards. I've said over and over again that it goes beyond just finding a way to make it work. There is a principle at work. As easy as it would be for me or for you to create a houserule, it would be just as easy for Wotc to create a houserule. Failure to do so says something. It says they will not support my playstyle or that of many others who feel the same way about hit points.

So my stand against wtoc is one of principle not pragmatism. I'm not going to support a company that consciously excludes my playstyle. And yes I believe that I'd bet my house 20% of the people out there hate martial healing, I believe the number is far higher and is probably approaching 40 or 50%. It doesn't matter though. Even at 20%, their refusal to give any support is inexcusable so debating over numbers is pointless. If you say it's 2% then I don't think much of your intellect (not saying you do think that but hypothetically).

My survivor houserule would probably be DR 5 against the first attack anyone makes against you each round when you are below 50%.

I'm not lover of temp hit points either.

 

[Agamon]

*shrug* I don't like to run 3.x/PF. So I don't. I don't go into PF threads and complain that it doesn't work like I want. Like you say, there are dozens of D&D-like games. If WotC "refuses" to make the game exactly the way one person wants instead of the way they decide is the best approach for everyone, I'm not sure what else to suggest.

 

[Grazzt]

As easy as it would be for me or for you to create a houserule, it would be just as easy for Wotc to create a houserule. Failure to do so says something. It says they will not support my playstyle or that of many others who feel the same way about hit points.

Failure to do so says it's your game. Play it and houserule it however you wish. WotC shouldn't have to, and doesn't need to supply a rule or optional rule (or module or whatever) to cover every niche or function from every previous edition. They couldn't anyway (too many differences between editions, save maybe 1e and 2e, and too many different playstyles to account for).

 

[Grazzt]

I'm not sure what else to suggest.

Sticking with a game that works would be my suggestion. I know lots of people that never moved to 3.x or 4.x. They stuck with 1e or 2e or whatever. They tried 3.x or 4.x and didn't like it. (Hell, I was one of the ones that didn't move to 4.x at all. I looked at it. Tried it. Hated it. Went back to 3.x and to PF eventually.)

 

[Emerikol]

*shrug* I don't like to run 3.x/PF. So I don't. I don't go into PF threads and complain that it doesn't work like I want. Like you say, there are dozens of D&D-like games. If WotC "refuses" to make the game exactly the way one person wants instead of the way they decide is the best approach for everyone, I'm not sure what else to suggest.

You really should try harder to read what people are saying. This is the second time you misinterpreted and then misrepresented me. I have never demanded that D&D cater to me and me alone. I would like inclusivity which would include some options for my playstyle. I don't believe I'm a tiny minority either on the healing issue which makes it more of a focus. I like level drain too but I know that level drain is not that popular to most people so I could houserule that in if I wanted it.

Since 5e was only until very recently be playtested I felt it appropriate to comment. You will notice that during 4e I didn't post on the wtoc forums. I felt there was no reason as 4e was so opposite anything I remotely wanted that why should I bother. I stopped buying 4e too once I figure out it was not for me. I never bought another 4e thing from wotc from then on.

 

[Agamon]

You really should try harder to read what people are saying. This is the second time you misinterpreted and then misrepresented me. I have never demanded that D&D cater to me and me alone. I would like inclusivity which would include some options for my playstyle. I don't believe I'm a tiny minority either on the healing issue which makes it more of a focus. I like level drain too but I know that level drain is not that popular to most people so I could houserule that in if I wanted it.

Trust me, I'm trying to understand, but the thinking is pretty foreign to me.

5e plays like 5e. There will be advice in the DMG to make it play like something else. That's pretty inclusive, if you ask me.

 

[Obryn]

It was going to happen. 5E was never going to have a 100% success rate. You just happened to draw the short straw. Sorry about that.

Yep, that's where I am, too. I'm okay with being on the "losing" side. I can rest content knowing I'm right, the world is wrong, and I don't need to complain that fake daddy WotC isn't patting me on the head and telling me my playstyle is okay.

I'm not planning on making the switch, though I do plan to give it a fair shake down the road and present it to my table. All these arguments that put philosophy before gameplay are just too crazy for me, anymore.

 

[MechaPilot]

I've said over and over again that it goes beyond just finding a way to make it work. There is a principle at work. As easy as it would be for me or for you to create a houserule, it would be just as easy for Wotc to create a houserule. Failure to do so says something. It says they will not support my playstyle or that of many others who feel the same way about hit points.

While I don't judge you for having that opinion, I have to say that if I had felt that way about a lack of official support for my playstyle (spell points instead of slots, and martial/inspirational healing) when I encountered D&D I would have missed out on many years of gaming fun by deciding to pass on D&D.

And please don't get me wrong, I don't mean to imply that you will miss out on anything. I know there are now several versions of D&D for people to choose from, a luxury that I didn't have when I first encountered D&D, and I trust you will pick whatever edition makes you happiest. I just feel that my sticking with D&D in the BECMI, AD&D 2e, and 3e days when I needed to houserule things to fit my preferences might add a little perspective.