Question for the board - Deities and Domains

[Mouseferatu]

Okay, so I've been staying out of this, but... Seriously, why are you keeping this guy in your game?

It's very clear that nobody--DMs or players--enjoy playing with him. No game is required to keep someone around who's lowering the bar for everyone else.

I don't mean this as a challenge, I'm honestly curious. Why is he still involved?

 

[Grogg of the North]

He liked the bonus damage from Skirmish (Scout ability), but missed the trick to make it effective: You have to move 10 feet to get the bonus damage from Skirmish, which normally limits a character to a single attack. Good damage on a single shot, but it's an all or nothing deal, and you can potentially do more at higher levels by just taking all the attacks. You get to count your bow's damage bonus on every shot. And he missed a big thing: Mounted Archery lets you meet the movement requirements with the mount's move action, thus letting you get a full round attack with Skirmish damage on each shot.

FWIW, Skirmish was errata'd so that it did not work while mounted.

 

[rgard]

Especially when it seems that every other PC would think "You know, I don't like that guy/girl. I'm gonna high tail it out of town before they wake up."

Funny how 3somes never seem to work out.

 

[Greenfield]

Okay, so I've been staying out of this, but... Seriously, why are you keeping this guy in your game?

It's very clear that nobody--DMs or players--enjoy playing with him. No game is required to keep someone around who's lowering the bar for everyone else.

I don't mean this as a challenge, I'm honestly curious. Why is he still involved?

It's me. I'm a softy when it comes to things like this.

The game is hosted at my house, but the decision to let someone in is a group vote. We don't have any formal way to evict someone. I could just tell him to to come to my house any more, but that's sort of me imposing my vote on everyone else, and that isn't exactly fair.

He's okay if we can keep an eye on him. I hate having to keep an eye on him. I hate being the "bad guy" who has to call him on his BS, who has to say "no" all the time.

 

[Mouseferatu]

It's me. I'm a softy when it comes to things like this.

The game is hosted at my house, but the decision to let someone in is a group vote. We don't have any formal way to evict someone. I could just tell him to to come to my house any more, but that's sort of me imposing my vote on everyone else, and that isn't exactly fair.

He's okay if we can keep an eye on him. I hate having to keep an eye on him. I hate being the "bad guy" who has to call him on his BS, who has to say "no" all the time.

It doesn't sound "okay," though. It sounds like you're not remotely the only person with a problem, and that his presence is affecting everyone's enjoyment.

Thing is, I've been where you are. I've been the softy. The result, over the long or even medium term, is far more unpleasantness and hurt feeling than just talking to the guy. At the very least, tell him that his playstyle is bothering everyone else, and can he tone it down a bit?

 

[Grogg of the North]

[MENTION=6669384]Greenfield[/MENTION] I've been there. I found it really draining to have to say no all the time, too. Perhaps you could use the same system to bring in a new player as a means of evicting one? After so many "no's" call for a vote among the group members. By all means, talk to the player first and see if you can work it out instead.

@Mouseferatu I agree. Trying to please everyone just winds up with the pain being dragged out.

 

[Greenfield]

I'm always torn in situations like this.

Small confession: I'm a functional sociopath. I don't actually "like" almost anyone. I'm not really capable of it. Forming positive emotional bonds isn't impossible, but it's very rare and very hard.

To cover and compensate, I try to think, "What would a nice person do here?". I am not, by nature, a nice person, you see. Again, it simply isn't possible. I have to work at it.

So a nice person wouldn't throw the clown out. He/she would try to gently convert them, show them that there's fun to be had without being an attention whore or a show off. Experience tells me this route has a really low success rate, but like me making friends, it's possible.

Also, a nice person wouldn't bulldoze a decision over the other people at the table. Even if it's one they could get behind, it sets a bad precedent, and the shadow of that abuse would haunt the game for a long time. So the hard, cold-blooded calculation says don't be hard and cold blooded.

So my options are, be the nice person and live with the situation as best I can, or be the manipulative sociopath and not just let him run unchecked, but subtly encourage him until he crosses the line and people start threatening to leave if he stays.

If I skip the "subtly encourage him" part, the end result is the same, it just takes longer, stretching out everyone's pain. Not very nice, in the long run.

I try really hard not the be that sociopath.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Well, I appreciate you being aware of your leanings and taking steps to mitigate them. I certainly don't want to say anything that's going to make you doubt a good balance, if you've found one.

That said...

There's a wide continuum between "not nice" and "doormat." It's possible to be nice and still not put up with everyone's crap.

It's a tough balance for most of us, I think. But there's wiggle room.

 

[Li Shenron]

What would you say: Allow or disallow?

Allow.

From your post, it doesn't sound to me that you have been using this deity Taiia in your current campaign setting, right? So this will be the first time she appears in your game... then why do you even care if the PC is "canon" or not?

I would understand if you had used it already as written in that book, and you wanted to keep consistency. Then there may be good reasons to disallow (but not necessarily) the exceptional character.

But if you haven't used it, and you are willing to add a whole new religion to your fantasy world, it doesn't have to be exactly as written. Anyway, even in that book, Taiia is just an example. You could simply come up with your own Taiia with whatever variations you wish.

---

As for scribing scrolls, IIRC those domain spells definitely count as "divine" even if they are "stolen" from the Wizard list. I seem to remember that there were in fact discussion ~10 years ago that those scrolls would normally be usable only by clerics with the same domain (or another domain granting the same spells), exactly because other clerics don't have them in their list while wizards can only use arcane scrolls. That's the RAW, but you're free to handle it differently.

 

[Henry]

The game is hosted at my house, but the decision to let someone in is a group vote. We don't have any formal way to evict someone.

Every new law needs a test case. Life is FAR too short to socialize regularly with people you can't stand to be around, and in my unsolicited opinion, there will come a day when your group comes to a head with this person, there will be lots of harsh words and feelings, and when it's all done, you'll all wonder why you didn't uninvite him from your games sooner.