D&D 5E 5th Edition -- Help Me Break the Game!

[jadrax]

So now its not clear if cantrips are overall character level along with the invocations? This got a bit more confusing.

It is unbelievably clear, its based on Level.

For example, Firebolt: 'This spell’s damage increases by 1d10 when you reach 5th level (2d10), 11th level (3d10), and 17th level (4d10).'

Level is always what was sometimes called 'Character Level' in previous editions.

The Multiclass Spellcaster Table is an option rule only used for determining the spell slots for multiclass characters and is not used to determine any sort of 'Caster Level', as 'Caster Level' is not a concept that exists in 5e.

 

[Paraxis]

It is unbelievably clear, its based on Level.

For example, Firebolt: 'This spell’s damage increases by 1d10 when you reach 5th level (2d10), 11th level (3d10), and 17th level (4d10).'

Level is always what was sometimes called 'Character Level' in previous editions.

The Multiclass Spellcaster Table is an option rule only used for determining the spell slots for multiclass characters and is not used to determine any sort of 'Caster Level', as 'Caster Level' is not a concept that exists in 5e.

Exactly caster level is not a thing in 5e.

Spell power is either based on level (total character level) or the spell slot level used to cast the spell, that is all.

 

[Deltabeoulve]

What about the Warlock invocations? Certain ones require level pre-reqs. Are those total character level or Warlock level, as it only says you get invocations at certain warlock levels but nothing about the pre-reqs.

 

[evilbob]

Exactly caster level is not a thing in 5e.

Spell power is either based on level (total character level) or the spell slot level used to cast the spell, that is all.

I agree with this as well.

Multiclassing is generally clamped down by the fact that classes tend to take 2 or 3 levels to really get their best stuff (also in the name of "warming up to a class" by inexperienced players) AND the fact that every single classes' progression has some pretty awesome stuff at level 18+. Not to mention that ability score increases are now a function of class, not character level - so the 2 level dip into X will cost you a +2 to ability scores / feat, minimum, plus a likely decent high-end ability, and of course the delay in all other aspects of your main class.

To balance this out and make multiclassing something that someone would actually do, they relaxed some of the worst restrictions (since they don't matter as much anymore). Getting rid of "caster level" is one. Giving 100% of classes the full spell slot progression (even if you multiclass paladin into ranger, you get a jillion more spell slots) is another.


As one poor soul has tried twice to say, one "break" that has been discussed in another thread is the old 3.5 "leadership" problem: what happens when you have hundreds of dinky helpers in a game with bounded accuracy? Well, the answer is a theoretical tsunami, since hundreds of dinky guys is no longer a small threat. You could hire a few hundred followers to all shoot arrows at once and kill a dragon in one round. Or raise a hundred skeletons. But like others have countered, the likelihood of this actually happening in a game is basically zero, because anyone would be able to see it's a pretty big stretch of what would be ok. It's like backstabbing with a siege weapon. It's fun, but it doesn't really help the story.

 

[Paraxis]

What about the Warlock invocations? Certain ones require level pre-reqs. Are those total character level or Warlock level, as it only says you get invocations at certain warlock levels but nothing about the pre-reqs.

On this I think the intent is warlock level, the rules as written could possibly come down on either side as it does just say level but someone brought up specific trumps general it is under the warlock class so you could argue that implies warlock level.

I do hope they clear it up, I think for now I will just use character level, so far no one has brought up multiclassing in my game.

 

[Wormwood]

So 14 pages in, it looks like banning multi-classing would go a long way toward 'break-proofing' 5e.

 

[omniknight]

You are missing:
1. Not sure what kind of DM is going to start a low level character off with Plate Armor until level 3/4? (gold requirement alone??)
2. You need the STR for heavy armor. So no, STR isn't a dump stat. You'll always be behind in max spell level and often number of spell slots.

I didn't miss anything, you did.

1) I merely assumed that 1500g plate armor would be affordable or findable sometime in levels 3-4. None of us have a very good handle yet about the wealth scaling, so I made a decent enough (IMO) guess to illustrate the point. If full plate actually becomes available in levels 5-6, who cares. You'll still have 18-19 AC until then anyway.

2) 13 or 15 STR is not strictly required to wear heavy armor, it just negates the -10 speed penalty. And Dwarf negates that penalty regardless of STR, which is one reason why Hill Dwarf fits nicely with the build.

 

[omniknight]

Of course, this is the outlook that leads to an audit at 8th level where everyone is shocked to learn how ridiculously overburdened they are.

Meh, my DM is good at staying on top of things and wouldn't let it get to that point. Besides, his players are more trustworthy than that to try anyway. Cheating is lame.

 

[omniknight]

Yes yes, dwarf wizards, cleric wizards ok. All very clever. Is the game broken? Does not sound like it. Exactly how much more powerful is a Wiz 19/Cler 1 than a Cler 20? Or how do they match up at a level that people actually play? It seems like what has been accomplished is you have gained some attributes of a class that you don't want to play while playing a class that you do want to play, not built an unstoppable encounter-breaking juggernaut.

Perhaps this is the wrong thread to discuss this build in, but I never once said the build was an attempt to break the game or be unstoppably OP. I just think overall it is more effective than the straight 20 Wizard.

 

[jadrax]

What about the Warlock invocations? Certain ones require level pre-reqs. Are those total character level or Warlock level, as it only says you get invocations at certain warlock levels but nothing about the pre-reqs.

Looking through, given that it just says 'Level' and their are no special multiclass rules for Invocations, I would again say its based on what we used to call 'Character Level'.

Although I can see an argument for saying all 'class features' (as opposed to spells) work on 'Class Level'.

Over all, I would go with the GM's call.