DOCTOR WHO: "Deep Breath" (SPOILERS)

[Viking Bastard]

In that final scene in "Heaven", I immediately thought of Silence in the Library's database.

 

[Umbran]

Yeah, but who else would know that the Doctor ditched Clara in Victorian London, at that particular time, and knew about the restaurant that wasnt really a restaurant?

Um, anyone who heard about the *GIANT DINOSAUR OUTSIDE PARLIAMENT* maybe? Those things don't happen in Victorian London every day without the Doctor's involvement. All you have to do then is look up Strax and Vastra, who aren't exactly hard to pick out in a crowd, if you know what I mean.

But, none of that is necessary. You're speaking as if Missy is otherwise unconnected to these events, having newly stumbled in. If Missy is, instead, directly connected to the clockwork androids in some way, then there's no puzzle. Then, all we need is someone capable of some form of time-travel, or an extremely long lifespan. Time Lords have the one, and the clockwork androids have the other.

Thus: another time lord (The Master, or the Rani) or the intelligence behind the androids. I can't rule out Clara herself, as she has the required information. But so far we've not seen her keep clear memory of events among the various bits of the Doctor's timeline, nor any ability to independently and willfully move her consciousness through time - basically, we don't see that she can plan and scheme across time to make things happen. They foreshadow so much on this show, I would have expected to see foreshadowing of such ability, if that is what they were going to do.

The basic "why" I can think of unfortunately applies to all enemies of the Doctor. Right now, Clara can be expected to show up in any point in the Doctor's timeline in order to save him. Her doing so unexpectedly can ruin a plot. If Clara and the Doctor are kept together, then you can plan for her involvement. "Keep your enemies closer," basically.

Oh, and I realized why it can't be River Song. River would refer to him as *husband*, not boyfriend.

 

[Umbran]

The basic "why" I can think of unfortunately applies to all enemies of the Doctor. Right now, Clara can be expected to show up in any point in the Doctor's timeline in order to save him. Her doing so unexpectedly can ruin a plot. If Clara and the Doctor are kept together, then you can plan for her involvement. "Keep your enemies closer," basically.

I should add - this is one of those things we likely agree on is correct, but in fact makes no sense whatsoever.

You see, Clara is the impossible girl because she entered the scar of the Doctor's timeline on Trenzalore. But, The Doctor *DIDN'T DIE* on Trenzalore. The scar is not there for her to enter later! So, she can't be the impossible girl, because the scar isn't there for her to enter, and she *doesn't* go around saving the Doctor....

Oh, wait, I get it then. Suppose that's all true. So, what the devil happens to the Clara that is clearly back in that timeline, but has no way to ave ever gotten there? She is herself now a temporal anomaly, a truly impossible girl. That Clara can become Missy.

Except, if this is true, then Missy then cannot have automatic knowledge of events *after* Trenzalore - it is at that point that our Clara and Missy must diverge. She *doesn't* know the Doctor's going to show up in Victorian London with a dinosaur. Doesn't automatically know about the robots in the restaurant, and so on.

 

[Janx]

Let's take what we know about the writers of Doctor Who.

They Lie.

One complaint I hear about the recent writing of Who (ie. Moffat) is that the show will say "such and such isn't possible" and then at the end, the impossible thing is exactly what it is.

So, what has been said to be impossible?

That, is what it will be.

 

[Umbran]

.So, what has been said to be impossible?

About this? Nothing that I know of.

Moffatt has been quoted as saying that the Master's story is done. Following the same logic, lots of folks are thinking that this is the same character, as The Mistress, and therefore not the Master, because Moffat lies. I understand the logic - but it leads to the shotgun attempt to figure it out - ask Moffat who she is, and anything he denies will be it. And you're hosed if he denies several things

"Mr. Moffat! Is Missy actually your pet cat?"
"No, that's silly. My cat is... a cat. You saw a person. My cat can't be Missy."

Well, then....

 

[monkeykenobi]

In that final scene in "Heaven", I immediately thought of Silence in the Library's database.

I think you have it...

 

[Janx]

About this? Nothing that I know of.

Moffatt has been quoted as saying that the Master's story is done. Following the same logic, lots of folks are thinking that this is the same character, as The Mistress, and therefore not the Master, because Moffat lies. I understand the logic - but it leads to the shotgun attempt to figure it out - ask Moffat who she is, and anything he denies will be it. And you're hosed if he denies several things

"Mr. Moffat! Is Missy actually your pet cat?"
"No, that's silly. My cat is... a cat. You saw a person. My cat can't be Missy."

Well, then....

Well, that's taking it too literally as what Moffat himself says.

Look to what the characters, particularly the Doctor says.

In the beginning of the episode, everybody is asking "who is behind the mystery" and the doctor is saying that's the wrong question. I predict we will see this motif throughout the season.

Which in turn means it is precisely the correct question.

Besides, they never answered the last season's question, "Doctor who?"

 

[The_Silversword]

I should add - this is one of those things we likely agree on is correct, but in fact makes no sense whatsoever.

You see, Clara is the impossible girl because she entered the scar of the Doctor's timeline on Trenzalore. But, The Doctor *DIDN'T DIE* on Trenzalore. The scar is not there for her to enter later! So, she can't be the impossible girl, because the scar isn't there for her to enter, and she *doesn't* go around saving the Doctor....

Oh, wait, I get it then. Suppose that's all true. So, what the devil happens to the Clara that is clearly back in that timeline, but has no way to ave ever gotten there? She is herself now a temporal anomaly, a truly impossible girl. That Clara can become Missy.

Except, if this is true, then Missy then cannot have automatic knowledge of events *after* Trenzalore - it is at that point that our Clara and Missy must diverge. She *doesn't* know the Doctor's going to show up in Victorian London with a dinosaur. Doesn't automatically know about the robots in the restaurant, and so on.

I was just thinking of this, of course i guess the Doctor could still die on Trenzalore later on, I dunno, maybe since the Great Intelligence and Clara both stepped into the Doctor's time rift, maybe pieces of them sorta merged together and maybe Missy is actually the Great Intelligence AND Clara, and since the Doctor stepped through as well maybe theres some of him in there too, yeah, I think thats my new theory.

 

[The_Silversword]

In that final scene in "Heaven", I immediately thought of Silence in the Library's database.

Nah, cant be, Silence has fallen, right?

 

[Bedrockgames]

For Missy, I was wondering if she might be Clara actually. Usually I am way off on these predictions though. I explained my reasons HERE along with one other idea.