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DOCTOR WHO: "Deep Breath" (SPOILERS)

Richards

Legend
I'm a little surprised someone hasn't started a thread on this, given that the premiere was last night. (Or is everybody waiting for the theatrical release tomorrow night?)

In any case, for those who have seen it (and those who are willing to peek at the thread and possibly get spoiled as to the contents): what did you think?

I thought the story was only about average, given that it was something of a "rerun." But I enjoyed the return of Madame Vastra, Jenny, and Strax (especially Strax). I thought Peter Capaldi did a fine job as a "post-regeneration, brain-scrambled" Doctor this episode, and am looking forward to his "Okay, the regeneration confusion is past now and this is how I'm going to be playing the role" version. And there were some fantastic lines in this episode, my favorite being an outraged Clara's "Nothing's more important than my egotism!" (I think my second favorite was the Doctor's "I hate being wrong in public -- everybody forget I said that!")

I guess we're to assume that the TARDIS extended its protective bubble around the Tyrannosaurus as it brought her through time? Because my understanding that the only way Captain Jack Harkness survived the trip on the outside of the TARDIS was due to his immortality and inability to be permanently killed. (Clara recently survived a trip on the outside of the TARDIS, but only because the TARDIS was actively protecting her.)

Matt Smith's appearance at the end was a surprise.

And for those of you who watched the "After Who" special which aired after "The Intruders" (I didn't bother watching that), it was cool seeing "Dub-Dub" from "The Middleman" again.

I'm looking forward to next week's Dalek episode.

Final thought: for those of you who end up seeing this episode at the theater, there's supposed to be an extra scene at the beginning. Anybody care to let us know what that was about?

Johnathan
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
The cinema release was simulcast yesterday at the same time as the episode.

The extra scene was Strax summarising all the Doctors with some jokes at each's expense.

I enjoyed it, though origin stories (inc. regen confusion stores) are too familiar. Too much allusion to topical politics with the Scottish referendum next month. And the Paternostas need to be a kids' TV show to replace SJA ASAP.

As a side note, the tramp he got the coat from was Elizabeth Sladen's husband.

Who do folks think the woman at the end was?
 

I think it left a few more questions than just "Who is Missy?" such as “Who frowned me this face?”

Which means that instead of randomly making a face for the new Doctor it was chosen for some reason, which I look forward to seeing if it's a season lone arc or just a few episodes. Both Moffat and RTD have a plan and I am excited to see exactly what it is and how it affects the Whoverse.

As for Missy, she called the Doctor her Boyfriend..better not let River hear that lol. It was strongly implied that she gave Clara the number to call the Doctor last season.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
The cinema release was simulcast yesterday at the same time as the episode.

The cinematic release in the US isn't until Monday the 25th.

Who do folks think the woman at the end was?

My top guess is that "Missy" is the intelligence behind the damaged spaceship from "The Girl In the Fireplace".

Though, with mysterious ships with names like Marie Antoinette and Madame Pompadour... I'm kind of hoping to see the Rani behind it all, maybe in another season or so...
 


Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Which means that instead of randomly making a face for the new Doctor it was chosen for some reason, which I look forward to seeing if it's a season lone arc or just a few episodes. Both Moffat and RTD have a plan and I am excited to see exactly what it is and how it affects the Whoverse.

So he was chosen because he was the right actor for the part. The face/previous roles thing will be tied in casually, but not as a big thing. As Moffat said in the cinema Q&A, everyone knows his face resembles a couple of people because it's the same actor, just like Watson looks like Bilbo. You can use a throwaway line, but they aren't going to insult the audience by pretending they had some big plan when they didn't. He said to expect a few lines here and there, but that's all.

It was strongly implied that she gave Clara the number to call the Doctor last season.

Yeah, that was fairly explicit. Interesting.
 

So he was chosen because he was the right actor for the part. The face/previous roles thing will be tied in casually, but not as a big thing. As Moffat said in the cinema Q&A, everyone knows his face resembles a couple of people because it's the same actor, just like Watson looks like Bilbo. You can use a throwaway line, but they aren't going to insult the audience by pretending they had some big plan when they didn't. He said to expect a few lines here and there, but that's all.
.

Based on what I've read and posted way back a few months ago on this very subject, I think it's more than just a few throw away lines

In a video interview with Nerd3, Moffat mentioned that Davies had always had a reason behind Capaldi’s double-time in the Whoniverse. When the man was cast as the Twelfth Doctor, Davies called up Moffat to tell him how happy he was with the choice and according to the Moff:
“I said, ‘Okay, what was your theory and does it still work?” and he said, ‘Yes it does. Here it is…’”
But the best part is that Moffat is actually planning on using Davies’ idea. His plan for Capaldi’s Doctor is to “play that one out over time. It’s actually quite neat.”

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/10/russell-t-davies-created-a-secret-origin-for-the-12th-doctor

so it looks like everything fell into place for this plan. We shall see how it all plays out this season

also 0349247ab40128aecdaa963f758a15eb.jpg and Trivia : The intro used was done by a fan on youtube
 
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delericho

Legend
I had mixed feelings. Which meant I was disappointed on balance - though that might be my own fault for uncontrolled expectations.

In particular, I felt the extended runtime was largely wasted - it felt like they'd crammed 45 minutes of episode into a 90 minute slot. Which was a real shame, because quite often they could actually do with the extended runtime. But, like Morrus, I've seen regeneration stories several times now, and while this one was okay, it wasn't the best, and it brought very little that was new.

Who do folks think the woman at the end was?

My initial guess would be the Rani, although how they'd square that with the Doctor knowing he's alone (as established wrt the Master coming back), I don't know. Perhaps she's first Time Lord to escape through the crack in reality?
 

The_Silversword

First Post
I was a little disappointed in it, I was under the impression that they was going in darker, more mature direction, but it seemed more slapstickish to me, maybe the next episode will be more to my liking, I dunno, so far im not real impressed with Capaldi's Doctor, but i guess its a little early yet to be making that call.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
My initial guess would be the Rani, although how they'd square that with the Doctor knowing he's alone (as established wrt the Master coming back), I don't know. Perhaps she's first Time Lord to escape through the crack in reality?

Meh. If there were Daleks that avoided the situation, so could the Rani.

One simple solution is this: The Doctor zapped Gallifrey away, and slapped a time lock on the whole thing. So Time Lords were off in another universe, Daleks had self-destructed, and nobody could find out why (or even mostly remember either side), and any surviving TLs or Ds were back behind the time lock (okay, so a few Daleks managed to escape).

So, say the Rani was not on Gallifrey when the Doctor zapped the planet away? She would still have been trapped behind the time lock on events (thus explaining why she hasn't shown up before). But now, that time lock is gone - everyone remembers what Time Lords are, as is clear from the siege of Trenzalore. That means anyone not on Gallifrey at the end of the Time War is now free to roam...
 

delericho

Legend
Meh. If there were Daleks that avoided the situation, so could the Rani.

Sure, but that wasn't quite what I meant. Back just before the Master was reintroduced, the Doctor commented that he knew he was the only survivor because he would have sensed if there had been another. They got around that for the Master by the use of the Chameleon Arch - effectively, the Master wasn't a Time Lord until Martha talked him into looking into his watch.

So if the Rani had escaped the destruction of Gallifrey but was still out there, the Doctor should have sensed her.

Having said all that...

So, say the Rani was not on Gallifrey when the Doctor zapped the planet away? She would still have been trapped behind the time lock on events (thus explaining why she hasn't shown up before). But now, that time lock is gone - everyone remembers what Time Lords are, as is clear from the siege of Trenzalore. That means anyone not on Gallifrey at the end of the Time War is now free to roam...

Yep, this makes sense.
 

MarkB

Legend
I really disliked the new theme tune and intro sequence. The music feels like change for change's sake, and loses a lot compared to previous seasons' themes, and the intro feels too busy and too gimmicky - do we really need whirling clock faces to tell us that the Doctor travels through time?

I had trouble with the idea that Clara had so much difficulty accepting a new Doctor. This is the Impossible Girl, who travelled through the Doctor's entire lifetimes undoing the Great Intelligence's interference - she's seen him in every incarnation, and more recently she interacted directly with his ninth and eleventh incarnations. Of all possible companions, she should have been the least likely to be thrown by such a change. In hindsight, though, I can accept that "least likely" doesn't necessarily mean "unlikely" in this context.

The villain lacked any screen presence whatsoever, failing to summon up the creepiness of the Clockwork Robots from Girl in the Fireplace or the body-horror of the Borg. The Doctor's attempts to talk him down felt utterly one-sided, with little impression that he was affected on an emotional level, or even that he had an emotional level upon which to be affected.

On the other hand, the Paternoster Gang turned in an excellent performance as always, continuing to be some of the better recurring characters in the series, and once we'd gone through the usual post-regenerative rigmarole, Capaldi's Doctor was on very good form, a promising sign for future episodes.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
So if the Rani had escaped the destruction of Gallifrey but was still out there, the Doctor should have sensed her.

Yep. That's why we place her back behind the time lock until Day of the Doctor resolves.

There gets to be some hinkeyness in the logic, in that we have evidence of Time Lords around and about even while the Time Lock is still in place. Just as some Daleks escaped by being outside the normal timestream, some Time Lords (the Corsair, for one) also managed the trick. Mind you, the Corsair managed the trick by being dead in a bubble universe, and that's not exactly a win for him/her....

I would love to see the Corsair in action, before his/her death...

I had trouble with the idea that Clara had so much difficulty accepting a new Doctor. This is the Impossible Girl, who traveled through the Doctor's entire lifetimes undoing the Great Intelligence's interference - she's seen him in every incarnation, and more recently she interacted directly with his ninth and eleventh incarnations.

It is pretty clear that her memory of that is hazy, at best. Plus, her interactions with the other regenerations seemed to have been quick - quick enough that the Doctor himself doesn't generally note them. This leads to a difference between her intellectual knowledge and her emotions. Intellectually, she knows they were all The Doctor. But, emotionally, for her there's really only one, and he looks like Matt Smith.
 


delericho

Legend
Well, not really. A whole lot of things about this make no sense whatsoever. I am waving my rhetorical hands really fast, and hoping nobody notices. :)

Well, yeah. But so has Steven Moffat since "The Impossible Astronaut" (if not before). "Makes sense" is a malleable concept where Doctor Who is concerned. :)
 

Hand of Evil

Adventurer
Epic
I will see if the new Doctor grows on me, still miss David.

As far as Missy, her with that umbrella kind of reminded me of Mary Poppins, which would be a very interesting character with for Doctor Who.
 

I really disliked the new theme tune and intro sequence. The music feels like change for change's sake, and loses a lot compared to previous seasons' themes, and the intro feels too busy and too gimmicky - do we really need whirling clock faces to tell us that the Doctor travels through time?

For that you can blame the fan who made it and got The Moff's attention on youtube since that's where it came from
 


Herschel

Adventurer
I liked it, overall. The plot was seemingly a throwaway vessel as a medium for character bits, but that's okay, especially as Moffat probably has a plan to make it more relevent than it initially seemed.
 

MarkB

Legend
For that you can blame the fan who made it and got The Moff's attention on youtube since that's where it came from

I don't blame him - I'm sure it's to his personal taste, and he probably never expected it to be more than just a fan-work. It's Moffatt and the production team who thought it was a good idea to put it on TV.
 

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