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DOCTOR WHO: "Deep Breath" (SPOILERS)

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
She was a recurring villain, a renegade time lord like the Master. She also featured a T-Rex in one ep, which was growing abnormally. She was responsible for killing the 6th Doctor (Colin Baker), making him regenerate into the 7th (Sylvester McCoy).

And there was some suggestion that they'd had a prior relationship, possibly romantic, allowing for the "boyfriend" angle.
 

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Janx

Hero
She was a recurring villain, a renegade time lord like the Master. She also featured a T-Rex in one ep, which was growing abnormally. She was responsible for killing the 6th Doctor (Colin Baker), making him regenerate into the 7th (Sylvester McCoy).

Any reason she gets a "normal" name instead of a title?

Seems like the writers were variable with what TimeLord gets titled versus named (ex. The Master, The Doctor vs. Romana, Rani).

I reckon I need to keep watching the batch of old episodes Netflix made available, but it's really kind of painful watching the really old stuff..
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Any reason she gets a "normal" name instead of a title?

Seems like the writers were variable with what TimeLord gets titled versus named (ex. The Master, The Doctor vs. Romana, Rani).

The Rani, not Rani.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Any reason she gets a "normal" name instead of a title?

Seems like the writers were variable with what TimeLord gets titled versus named (ex. The Master, The Doctor vs. Romana, Rani).

I reckon I need to keep watching the batch of old episodes Netflix made available, but it's really kind of painful watching the really old stuff..

Actually, it *is* "The Rani".

While the differences have never been explained, most of the titled Time Lords seem to be renegades, or otherwise working outside the norms of Gallifreyan society.
 
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MarkB

Legend
Well, she does show up in several of the novels and audio plays - even becomes Lady President of the High Council.

They'd have a lot of 'splainin' to do, to turn her into an antagonist, though.

So far, I'd classify Missy as only ambiguously an antagonist - she hasn't actually done anything bad or expressed any evil intent yet.

On a second viewing she's not particularly Romana-like, but regeneration could account for that.

However, that line about how she likes his new accent and thinks she might keep it - that does seem suggestive that she's much more intimately linked to him, either a future incarnation, or some form of reflection or alternate version of him.
 



HobbitFan

Explorer
I liked the new Doctor. Not enough with him interacting with his friends. I don't get the point of including Strax, Vastra and Jenny if Clara is going to be the only one talking to them. Capaldi was by himself too much of the episode.

I can't say I especially cared for the story or the villains though.
I didn't really like the clockwork robots in Girl in the Fireplace and I cared for them even less here.


I generally like Moffat as a writer but this one felt a little phoned-in.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Dunno if this is true (I'll have to rewatch it) but somebody said that they could hear Stevie Wonder playing on the frozen Thames. Anyone notice that? It seems unlikely to me, because if the 11th Doctor and River are celebrating her birthday there, I imagine they'd have noticed the dinosaur.
 

The_Silversword

First Post
Who else would know? Well, the TARDIS itself, for one. It is sentient, and has manifested as a female aspect in the past. River Song is another. I suspect any Time Lord can figure out how to reach the phone in the Doctor's TARDIS easily - and anyone who has studied the Doctor enough to recognize there's this young woman popping up in his timeline repeatedly saving him will figure out her importance. So, again, any Time Lord, or anyone with a lot of information.

The question is who can do it - that can be hand-waved. The question is *why*. Why try to keep Clara and the Doctor together? Find the answer to why, and that will tell you who.

Yeah, but who else would know that the Doctor ditched Clara in Victorian London, at that particular time, and knew about the restaurant that wasnt really a restaurant? Of course im doing alot of speculating assuming 'Missy' was the one that put the add in the paper and was the 'woman at the shop' who gave Clara the number to the T.A.R.D.I.S.. Yeah it could be anyone, or an entirely new character, but my moneys still on Clara, or at least one of her fragmented selves. The Doctor's comment about a egomaniac, needy, gameplayer type of person also leads me to think that Missy is Clara, but then again maybe thats what we're supposed to think.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Yeah, but who else would know that the Doctor ditched Clara in Victorian London, at that particular time, and knew about the restaurant that wasnt really a restaurant?

Um, anyone who heard about the *GIANT DINOSAUR OUTSIDE PARLIAMENT* maybe? Those things don't happen in Victorian London every day without the Doctor's involvement. All you have to do then is look up Strax and Vastra, who aren't exactly hard to pick out in a crowd, if you know what I mean.

But, none of that is necessary. You're speaking as if Missy is otherwise unconnected to these events, having newly stumbled in. If Missy is, instead, directly connected to the clockwork androids in some way, then there's no puzzle. Then, all we need is someone capable of some form of time-travel, or an extremely long lifespan. Time Lords have the one, and the clockwork androids have the other.

Thus: another time lord (The Master, or the Rani) or the intelligence behind the androids. I can't rule out Clara herself, as she has the required information. But so far we've not seen her keep clear memory of events among the various bits of the Doctor's timeline, nor any ability to independently and willfully move her consciousness through time - basically, we don't see that she can plan and scheme across time to make things happen. They foreshadow so much on this show, I would have expected to see foreshadowing of such ability, if that is what they were going to do.

The basic "why" I can think of unfortunately applies to all enemies of the Doctor. Right now, Clara can be expected to show up in any point in the Doctor's timeline in order to save him. Her doing so unexpectedly can ruin a plot. If Clara and the Doctor are kept together, then you can plan for her involvement. "Keep your enemies closer," basically.

Oh, and I realized why it can't be River Song. River would refer to him as *husband*, not boyfriend.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
The basic "why" I can think of unfortunately applies to all enemies of the Doctor. Right now, Clara can be expected to show up in any point in the Doctor's timeline in order to save him. Her doing so unexpectedly can ruin a plot. If Clara and the Doctor are kept together, then you can plan for her involvement. "Keep your enemies closer," basically.

I should add - this is one of those things we likely agree on is correct, but in fact makes no sense whatsoever. :)

You see, Clara is the impossible girl because she entered the scar of the Doctor's timeline on Trenzalore. But, The Doctor *DIDN'T DIE* on Trenzalore. The scar is not there for her to enter later! So, she can't be the impossible girl, because the scar isn't there for her to enter, and she *doesn't* go around saving the Doctor....

Oh, wait, I get it then. Suppose that's all true. So, what the devil happens to the Clara that is clearly back in that timeline, but has no way to ave ever gotten there? She is herself now a temporal anomaly, a truly impossible girl. That Clara can become Missy.

Except, if this is true, then Missy then cannot have automatic knowledge of events *after* Trenzalore - it is at that point that our Clara and Missy must diverge. She *doesn't* know the Doctor's going to show up in Victorian London with a dinosaur. Doesn't automatically know about the robots in the restaurant, and so on.
 

Janx

Hero
Let's take what we know about the writers of Doctor Who.

They Lie.

One complaint I hear about the recent writing of Who (ie. Moffat) is that the show will say "such and such isn't possible" and then at the end, the impossible thing is exactly what it is.

So, what has been said to be impossible?

That, is what it will be.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
.So, what has been said to be impossible?

About this? Nothing that I know of.

Moffatt has been quoted as saying that the Master's story is done. Following the same logic, lots of folks are thinking that this is the same character, as The Mistress, and therefore not the Master, because Moffat lies. I understand the logic - but it leads to the shotgun attempt to figure it out - ask Moffat who she is, and anything he denies will be it. And you're hosed if he denies several things :)

"Mr. Moffat! Is Missy actually your pet cat?"
"No, that's silly. My cat is... a cat. You saw a person. My cat can't be Missy."

Well, then.... :)
 


Janx

Hero
About this? Nothing that I know of.

Moffatt has been quoted as saying that the Master's story is done. Following the same logic, lots of folks are thinking that this is the same character, as The Mistress, and therefore not the Master, because Moffat lies. I understand the logic - but it leads to the shotgun attempt to figure it out - ask Moffat who she is, and anything he denies will be it. And you're hosed if he denies several things :)

"Mr. Moffat! Is Missy actually your pet cat?"
"No, that's silly. My cat is... a cat. You saw a person. My cat can't be Missy."

Well, then.... :)

Well, that's taking it too literally as what Moffat himself says.

Look to what the characters, particularly the Doctor says.

In the beginning of the episode, everybody is asking "who is behind the mystery" and the doctor is saying that's the wrong question. I predict we will see this motif throughout the season.

Which in turn means it is precisely the correct question.

Besides, they never answered the last season's question, "Doctor who?"
 

The_Silversword

First Post
I should add - this is one of those things we likely agree on is correct, but in fact makes no sense whatsoever. :)

You see, Clara is the impossible girl because she entered the scar of the Doctor's timeline on Trenzalore. But, The Doctor *DIDN'T DIE* on Trenzalore. The scar is not there for her to enter later! So, she can't be the impossible girl, because the scar isn't there for her to enter, and she *doesn't* go around saving the Doctor....

Oh, wait, I get it then. Suppose that's all true. So, what the devil happens to the Clara that is clearly back in that timeline, but has no way to ave ever gotten there? She is herself now a temporal anomaly, a truly impossible girl. That Clara can become Missy.

Except, if this is true, then Missy then cannot have automatic knowledge of events *after* Trenzalore - it is at that point that our Clara and Missy must diverge. She *doesn't* know the Doctor's going to show up in Victorian London with a dinosaur. Doesn't automatically know about the robots in the restaurant, and so on.

I was just thinking of this, of course i guess the Doctor could still die on Trenzalore later on, I dunno, maybe since the Great Intelligence and Clara both stepped into the Doctor's time rift, maybe pieces of them sorta merged together and maybe Missy is actually the Great Intelligence AND Clara, and since the Doctor stepped through as well maybe theres some of him in there too, yeah, I think thats my new theory.
 


For Missy, I was wondering if she might be Clara actually. Usually I am way off on these predictions though. I explained my reasons HERE along with one other idea.
 

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