D&D 5E 5e question: dual hand crossbows

[Syntallah]

But the Two Weapon Fighting and the Fighting Style only affect MELEE weapons so would have no bearing on the Hand Crossbows.

It also applies to thrown weapons, thus opening the door for other ranged attacks with appropriate requisite feats...

 

[TDarien]

It also applies to thrown weapons, thus opening the door for other ranged attacks with appropriate requisite feats...

No it doesn't. It applies to melee weapons. Having the thrown property is irrelevant. It would not apply to a dart, for instance.

 

[TDarien]

Yes you can dual wield crossbows. I was just looking into dual-wielding hand crossbows for a rogue modron PC a la Nordom, it just requires significant feat investment and being a Fighter (two-weapon fighting style) to be worth it.

The relevant rules:

PHB 195, "Two-Weapon Fighting"


PHB 165, "Crossbow Expert"


PHB 72, "Fighting Style - Two-Weapon Fighting"


Later on, if you want to be able to draw both crossbows simultaneously, you could pick up the Dual Wielder feat.

The bonus action attack granted from Crossbow Expert already gets your ability modifier to damage. The two weapon fighting style is not needed and doesn't mix with Crossbow expert at all. (As two-weapon fighting only applies to melee weapons)

 

[Syntallah]

No it doesn't. It applies to melee weapons. Having the thrown property is irrelevant. It would not apply to a dart, for instance.

While I understand what you're saying, the Thrown property is hardly irrelevant, as it specifically allows you to make a ranged attack with each hand.

 

[TDarien]

While I understand what you're saying, the Thrown property is hardly irrelevant, as it specifically allows you to make a ranged attack with each hand.

Not quite. Two weapon fighting allows you to make an attack with a melee weapon in each hand. That's all it does. It doesn't matter what type of attack that is, so long as you're using a melee weapon. The thrown property lets you make a ranged attack with *that particular weapon*. They work together, true, but they are *completely* irrelevant to one another.

As I said before, two weapon fighting will *not* allow you to make two attacks with darts, even though they have the thrown property, as they are ranged weapons.

 

[Quickleaf]

The bonus action attack granted from Crossbow Expert already gets your ability modifier to damage. The two weapon fighting style is not needed and doesn't mix with Crossbow expert at all. (As two-weapon fighting only applies to melee weapons)

RAW you are correct, because the Crossbow Expert feat is written to be insulated from the Two Wepaon FIghting rules on p195.

RAI, however, I have to wonder because it makes hand crossbows an exception to the normal rule that offhand attacks don't add your ability modifier. This would allow a human fighter with Crossbow Expert and Archery Fighting Style, with a Dex 18 dual wielding hand crossbows to have the following attack at low levels:

Attack: +8 / +8; Hit: 1d6+4 / 1d6+4.

Hmm. Maybe that's not as unreasonable as I was fearing?

 

[TDarien]

RAW you are correct, because the Crossbow Expert feat is written to be insulated from the Two Wepaon FIghting rules on p195.

RAI, however, I have to wonder because it makes hand crossbows an exception to the normal rule that offhand attacks don't add your ability modifier. This would allow a human fighter with Crossbow Expert and Archery Fighting Style, with a Dex 18 dual wielding hand crossbows to have the following attack at low levels:

Attack: +8 / +8; Hit: 1d6+4 / 1d6+4.

Hmm. Maybe that's not as unreasonable as I was fearing?

He doesn't even need two crossbows. Both attacks can be from the same one.

 

[Obryn]

It's weird. I'm fine with a mighty barbarian swinging a pair of 8-ft. greatclubs while raging . . . but the idea of a guy holding a crossbow in each hand and somehow managing to load them both is silly.

I'm sorry, if you think a Rogue going Chow Yun Fat with a pair of hand crossbows is silly, you're objectively wrong.

 

[Syntallah]

I'm sorry, if you think a Rogue going Chow Yun Fat with a pair of hand crossbows is silly, you're objectively wrong.

Pretty much my point. I understand what TDarien is saying by RAW. Although I find the notion of the Crossbow Expert feat allowing [fire - load - fire] in a round to be sillier than [fire left & fire right]...

Anyway, if I have a player who wants his fighter with Two-Weapon Fighting style, and the Crossbow Expert & Dual Wielding feats to be all gunslinger action, I am going to go with the spirit of the Game and allow it.

 

[TDarien]

Pretty much my point. I understand what TDarien is saying by RAW. Although I find the notion of the Crossbow Expert feat allowing [fire - load - fire] in a round to be sillier than [fire left & fire right]...

Anyway, if I have a player who wants his fighter with Two-Weapon Fighting style, and the Crossbow Expert & Dual Wielding feats to be all gunslinger action, I am going to go with the spirit of the Game and allow it.

People should realize that with the crossbow expert feat, the Duel Wielder feat is pretty much pointless. The only benefit it would bring you is being able to draw both weapons for free. You wouldn't get the +1 to AC, as that only applies when you wield two melee weapons, and being able to use weapons that aren't light is not helpful in this case.