D&D 5E Is the Champion weak compared to Battle Master?

[Sword of Spirit]

A simple question. It seems to me that Battle Master just blows Champion out of the water in most situations.

Am I missing something?

 

[Vowtz]

If you use a greateaxe and manage to roll a 19
more than four times between all of your rests
then maybe champion is stronger.

And...

On 18th level the champion gains a good ability.

 

[Paraxis]

I think it is the option for people who don't like different powers and options, it is about as simple as you get in 5e and some people like simple.

Now would I like it to be a little better sure but I think it fills the role it is supposed to.

 

[Chocolategravy]

A simple question. It seems to me that Battle Master just blows Champion out of the water in most situations. Am I missing something?

Battlemaster is good at low level and if you get lots of rests. Champion is good at high level or if you don't get lots of rests. Battlemaster is strong because of riposte, or possibly commander's strike with a rogue in the party. Champion is strong if you get synergy for it like reckless attack and the GWM and PA feats.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It seems pretty strong to me. Unlike the Battle Master, since the Champion has entirely passive abilities, you never risk being inefficient in their use. You never have to worry about using the wrong ability at the wrong time, and you always get 100% of their maximum utility. The Battle Master might be capable of more, but you're probably going to waste a lot of that potential by using it at the wrong time.

 

[Marshall]

It seems pretty strong to me. Unlike the Battle Master, since the Champion has entirely passive abilities, you never risk being inefficient in their use. You never have to worry about using the wrong ability at the wrong time, and you always get 100% of their maximum utility. The Battle Master might be capable of more, but you're probably going to waste a lot of that potential by using it at the wrong time.

Unless youre completely incompetent, you cant waste your Superiority Dice. They are guaranteed damage added on a hit or a free extra attack. This doesnt mean that the dice are good options or anything, it just means that the .5 star BM is all around better than the no-star Champion.

The scary part is just reverting to the Alpha version bumps the Champion 2 steps up. At the very least Indomitable should be always on at 17, Remarkable Athlete should bump up to full and then Double prof and the extra crit range is neat...but crits are crap in this edition unless you've got something to back them up like the Barbs Brutal Crit. Survivor is pointless when compared to other lvl 18 benefits. Regen 10 vs. Bonus 80 a round?

 

[Chocolategravy]

It seems pretty strong to me. Unlike the Battle Master, since the Champion has entirely passive abilities, you never risk being inefficient in their use. You never have to worry about using the wrong ability at the wrong time, and you always get 100% of their maximum utility. The Battle Master might be capable of more, but you're probably going to waste a lot of that potential by using it at the wrong time.

Huh? It's the reverse of that. Having the choice on when to spend your die means you are less likely to waste it than a randomly occurring crit is unless your decision making is so bad it's worse than random.

 

[Ashkelon]

In a straight DPR comparison, the Battlemaster wins across all levels unless you are unable to get a short rest at some point during the day.

The champion does have remarkable athlete and regeneration which are quite potent abilities.

 

[AngryMojo]

There's also something to be said about the expanded crit chance when you have advantage. With advantage a 19-20 becomes a 19% chance of a crit, while an 18-20 becomes just shy of a 28% chance. Considering how much advantage there is out there, by high levels this is very likely to happen. Granted your maneuvers with a battlemaster will do damage as if you are getting a crit at higher levels, but with how many attacks a fighter can get you can chew through those superiority dice very quickly. Going all out will leave you with no dice left after two rounds of combat, if you ration those dice they can last all day.

I can't really judge until I see both in combat, and as a tactician I'll take battlemaster every day of the week, but if the DM doesn't really allow a lot of short rests during the day I can absolutely see a champion shining bright. With a short rest getting bumped up to an hour it's not really feasible in most dungeon crawling scenarios to take one anymore. Somebody is bound to come along and check out that room that just got slaughtered in an hour, unless you find a truly remarkable hidey-hole.

Limited resources seem like a very big deal in this edition, it's nice to see fighters having to think about their abilities along with the spellcasters.​

 

[Chocolategravy]

In a straight DPR comparison, the Battlemaster wins across all levels unless you are unable to get a short rest at some point during the day. The champion does have remarkable athlete and regeneration which are quite potent abilities.

Yeah, no. With advantage from Reckless Attack the champion is getting an extra crit every round or two more than the Battlemaster. With GWM that crit is turning into an additional attack. If they are also a horc the crits get an extra damage die. Unless the Battlemaster is resting after every single fight they are losing quite badly in DPR. Even getting 6 ripostes every fight they could still be behind.