D&D 5E Rate the 5e player character classes

[Remathilis]

You are wrong, think of the bard as a strictly better Rogue and the class is a lot better. Sleep, and Faerie fire are amazing along with vicious mockery and the bard is almost as good as the Rogue at skills that matter with the exception of the thieves toolkit expertise. The bard can also steal spells off other classes so while the Rogue gets exicted about 3d6 sneak attack the bard picks up haste and fireball. Throw in cutting words and inspiration dice that recharge with short rests even when the bard runs out of spells it is all good and the bard can also heal via cure spells and 1d6 whenever the party spends a hit dice to heal.

At lower levels the Rogue may get in +1d6 sneak attack the bard ends the encounter with a sleep spell. If you have a wizard in the party you just sleep the 1st 4 encounters or use faerie fire on undead which are immune to sleep. You will hit level 2 around about the same time you run out of spells.

Part of my statement was how well it emulates its own archetype. I don't consider bard being able to emulate rogue a selling point. And as a spellcaster, I do rate bard's as strong; its just some of its other abilities (inspiration, etc) that are average.

I'm curious, what makes you say wild shape is weak? It seems like a fairly strong feature to me. Though I disagree with some who would imply that it is so powerful as to break the game.

The CR limit keeps them from being the D in CoDzilla this time; its a welcomed nerfed but a nerf non-the-less.

 

[Zardnaar]

Part of my statement was how well it emulates its own archetype. I don't consider bard being able to emulate rogue a selling point. And as a spellcaster, I do rate bard's as strong; its just some of its other abilities (inspiration, etc) that are average.



The CR limit keeps them from being the D in CoDzilla this time; its a welcomed nerfed but a nerf non-the-less.

Wildshape is roughly back to where it was in 2nd ed. However unlike 2nd ed the 5E Druid doesn't seem to get much in the way of ma powerful spell or ability to compensate and power creep on the cleric class seems difficult to ignore. Not sure how to build or run a Druid in 5E.

 

[Mercule]

Rogue

Theme: Strong​

Mechanics: Average​

Interesting. I would have rated the Rogue's Theme as "needs a shovel".

We're using LMoP as a "Demo mode" for 5E. There hasn't been much wholesale rebuilds, but a bit of tweaking to ensure we know the rules. Most folks are enjoying their characters, but the Rogue player is not even a little happy. Sure, he's probably got more kills under his belt than the fighter, but the 5E rules have totally removed his niche. Most of the characters are high-dex, so have good stealth. The wood elf Cleric has a high-enough passive perception that he's almost laughing at the Rogue for not being able to find doors. The wizard has a criminal background, so he can pick locks no problem.

What's left for the Rogue? He doesn't suck, statistically -- like I said, he's probably got a higher kill count than the fighter. That's probably as thematically concerning as having all the standard Rogue/Thief bases covered by other characters; if he wanted to measure "awesome" by kill count, he would have played a fighter-type. Instead, we're left with a character that feels like a fifth-wheel for all the reasons you'd pick the class, but is accidentally overshadowing others in areas he should be secondary.

Don't get me wrong: I like that you can run a full stealth party; in 3E we tried doing RtToEE all stealth and had to make too many compromises to be effective. 5E makes that possible. My group is concerned that the Rogue has strayed too far from its roots in the Thief class. If the Rogue is now just the better light Fighter, then Sneak Attack doesn't really match, thematically. But, removing that would depower the class. So, what, exactly, is the theme of the Rogue class?

 

[Stalker0]

Interesting. I would have rated the Rogue's Theme as "needs a shovel".

We're using LMoP as a "Demo mode" for 5E. There hasn't been much wholesale rebuilds, but a bit of tweaking to ensure we know the rules. Most folks are enjoying their characters, but the Rogue player is not even a little happy. Sure, he's probably got more kills under his belt than the fighter, but the 5E rules have totally removed his niche. Most of the characters are high-dex, so have good stealth. The wood elf Cleric has a high-enough passive perception that he's almost laughing at the Rogue for not being able to find doors. The wizard has a criminal background, so he can pick locks no problem.

What's left for the Rogue? He doesn't suck, statistically -- like I said, he's probably got a higher kill count than the fighter. That's probably as thematically concerning as having all the standard Rogue/Thief bases covered by other characters; if he wanted to measure "awesome" by kill count, he would have played a fighter-type. Instead, we're left with a character that feels like a fifth-wheel for all the reasons you'd pick the class, but is accidentally overshadowing others in areas he should be secondary.

Don't get me wrong: I like that you can run a full stealth party; in 3E we tried doing RtToEE all stealth and had to make too many compromises to be effective. 5E makes that possible. My group is concerned that the Rogue has strayed too far from its roots in the Thief class. If the Rogue is now just the better light Fighter, then Sneak Attack doesn't really match, thematically. But, removing that would depower the class. So, what, exactly, is the theme of the Rogue class?

I think the key is the "Cunning Action ability". Your party can stealth, but only the Rogue can stealth instantly. The rogue can use disengage as a bonus action, run past 6 guys, and still sneak attack the guy at the end. The rogue is faster than any other party member (bonus dashes).

And as a thief, he can pickpocket or open locks instantly. Or if he fails, he can use his regular action to try again. The big one, he can manipulate 2 objects a turn, which with a healthy imagination can lead to all sorts of possibilities.

There is so much potential jam packed into that one ability, I consider it the cornerstone of the rogue's new theme. I would tell your player to really consider all of the things you can do with that ability, and let his imagination run wild.

 

[Sadrik]

So, what, exactly, is the theme of the Rogue class?

For me rogue is to fighter as wizard is to cleric.

A wizard is more lightly armored but has more effective spells than a cleric who is tougher and more effective in buffing the party. A rogue is more lightly armored but has more effective tricks than the fighter who is a tough consistent no frills combatant. Now this is not exactly how it panned out but this is how I see the differentiation between the fighter and the rogue.

The rogue in 5e seems to have the differentiation in their combat stuff. Extra movement, sneak attack, assassination, and damage avoidance (uncanny dodge, evasion, and elusive). Plus they have the skills things. This is close to my thoughts on the differentiation between fighter and rogue.