D&D 5E Rogue Warrior with an axe

[trentonjoe]

I wouldn't allow it. It bypasses some of the essential restrictions between classes and allows for numerous broken combinations. Those saying they'd allow it aren't seeing the forest for the trees.

How is it any different than drawing a dagger and attacking? Mechanically it is EXACTLY the same.

 

[Chocolategravy]

How is it any different than drawing a dagger and attacking? Mechanically it is EXACTLY the same.

Daggers aren't versatile which makes it not the same. Seriously, I think the whole "finesse weapon shouldn't be two-handed because..." has been answered several times already.

 

[GreenTengu]

As mentioned, using sneak attack with a versatile weapon would allow you to re-roll all 1s and 2s if you have the great-weapon fighting style. That's the big one, and the major reason why they will never (or should never) make a versatile or two-handed finesse weapon.

You can't sneak attack with an axe, because an axe isn't subtle.

Your first point is moot. I already said if you clarify that Great Weapon Expertise applies exclusively to the base weapon damage and not to additional effects the weapon might cause, it is fixed.

The second is just your personal preference and a bit silly. If you don't know someone is coming up behind you, they can swing and smack you in the back of the head using a baseball back just as easily as they can stab you with a knife. Forget baseball bat, they could smack you with a chair and that is a lot larger and easy to notice than an axe. Axes are generally not laden with bells and whistles that give people lots of notice before you hit them. As such, an axe or a spear or anything else is just as likely to catch you by surprise as a one-handed weapon.

And if you want to say sneak attack damage comes not from the surprise but from hitting a particularly vital and unguarded area of the body. Well... a knife in the kidney or an axe to the spine-- it works just as well.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The second is just your personal preference and a bit silly. If you don't know someone is coming up behind you, they can swing and smack you in the back of the head using a baseball bat just as easily as they can stab you with a knife.

That's not a sneak attack, though. A sneak attack works when you sneak up on someone, or when you have an ally to provide a distraction that allows you to maneuver past their defenses, and you can't maneuver a baseball bat that way - you just don't have enough precise control over a weapon that you can't finesse.

If there were two separate abilities, and one worked when you had surprise and the other worked in combat, then you might have a stronger argument for using any weapon you want during a surprise attack. That doesn't really seem like something that would be limited to Rogues, though.

And it's not my preference. It's the preference of the game designers, who you are paying to provide you with a big long list of how things in the world work. You asked them for the game mechanics necessary to resolve certain situations, and they gave you their answer, and you don't like it. You're free to disagree with them, of course, but that doesn't change what they said.

 

[trentonjoe]

All the OP wants to do is use his axe as a d4 weapon. He could actually draw a dagger and attack with it in the same round. It's the exact same thing.

What;s the difference between drawing a dagger and using your axe like one?

 

[bganon]

As mentioned, using sneak attack with a versatile weapon would allow you to re-roll all 1s and 2s if you have the great-weapon fighting style. That's the big one, and the major reason why they will never (or should never) make a versatile or two-handed finesse weapon.

You can't sneak attack with an axe, because an axe isn't subtle.

This argument about the GWF style combo with SA dice being overpowered would be a whole lot more convincing if the numbers actually bore it out.

Unfortunately, they do not. The rerolling only happens once, so the average on a d6 roll increases from 3.5 to 4.16667. If you're imagining a Rogue with a level in Fighter to grab the fighting style, they could just as easily grab the two-weapon style and be adding their ability modifier to the extra attack. And while Rogues often have many uses for that bonus action, swinging twice means a much greater chance of hitting and rolling those SA dice at all.

And it's almost always better for the rogue to swing a d6 weapon twice and increase the odds of getting to apply SA dice (plus a smaller chance of adding the ability modifier twice), than it is to keep the hit chance the same and swing a 2d6 weapon with rerolls on all those d6s increasing the average damage by 19%. In fact, the only case I've found where GW style pulls (very slightly) ahead is if you're 99% guaranteed the hit.

Now, you could argue that needing to use the bonus action is the balancing factor, but GWF style + SA dice simply does less damage in almost every circumstance than a vanilla dual-wielding Rogue. And the GWF Rogue now has an extra ability score to pump.

 

[Thank Dog]

What;s the difference between drawing a dagger and using your axe like one?

If there's no difference, then there's no reason to make a custom weapon to bypass the requirement.

 

[trentonjoe]

It's cool and fun?

 

[Thank Dog]

It's cool and fun?

I'm all for that... as long as it doesn't break the balance of the system, which I feel this does. I get that you don't think drawing another weapon is a big thing, but I feel it is and that combining all those functions into one weapon that isn't even finessable, as well as using Strength for the attacks instead of Dexterity, is overpowered.

 

[pkt77242]

That's not a sneak attack, though. A sneak attack works when you sneak up on someone, or when you have an ally to provide a distraction that allows you to maneuver past their defenses, and you can't maneuver a baseball bat that way - you just don't have enough precise control over a weapon that you can't finesse.

If there were two separate abilities, and one worked when you had surprise and the other worked in combat, then you might have a stronger argument for using any weapon you want during a surprise attack. That doesn't really seem like something that would be limited to Rogues, though.

And it's not my preference. It's the preference of the game designers, who you are paying to provide you with a big long list of how things in the world work. You asked them for the game mechanics necessary to resolve certain situations, and they gave you their answer, and you don't like it. You're free to disagree with them, of course, but that doesn't change what they said.

I would argue that you can have that kind of control over a baseball bat if you are a professional (think a professional baseball player) and that is really what the PCs are professionals.

Having said that you are right that the designers did not want it to be that way, but that doesn't mean a table couldn't have a house rule for it if they wanted. While we pay the designers to design the games for us many DMs have houserules, so I would more say that the designers didn't want it to be that way but if your DM is ok with it then go for it.