Come and Get It and Warrior's Urge: Please help me implement a change to both of these powers

[keterys]

How about this?

Standard Action Close burst 3
Target: Each enemy you can see in the burst
Effect: Each target chooses to either immediately shift adjacent to the fighter, or to be marked by the fighter and grant combat advantage to the fighter, both until the end of the encounter as a charm effect. After all targets make their choice, the fighter may shift up to 2 squares then make a secondary attack against all adjacent enemies.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1W damage.

 

[Balesir]

How about this?

Standard Action Close burst 3
Target: Each enemy you can see in the burst
Effect: Each target chooses to either immediately shift adjacent to the fighter, or to be marked by the fighter and grant combat advantage to the fighter, both until the end of the encounter as a charm effect. After all targets make their choice, the fighter may shift up to 2 squares then make a secondary attack against all adjacent enemies.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1W damage.

Not too bad a try, but:

- Pull is better than shift for off-turn moves for a variety of reasons, and there is no reason the enemy shouldn't get a choice of one outcome (pull) or another.

- It shouldn't really be a charm power, as it is generally using physical trickery rather than manipulating the mental model directly (which could also be done by "martial" means, but I don't think is required or likely, here)

- Damage should have STR added.

- The attack isn't "secondary", as there is no "primary" attack - the earlier part is an "Effect"

- Perhaps most seriously, it is arguable that the most chancy or "uncertain" part of the whole thing is whether targets will move in response to the stimulus or not. If they do, hitting them is really secondary.

- It removes the most important "controller" aspect of this power; the ability to clump enemies all in one area. Making that trivially resistable is nerfing an important tactical aspect of the power(s).

Apart from that, best try so far...

 

[keterys]

Not too bad a try, but:

- Pull is better than shift for off-turn moves for a variety of reasons, and there is no reason the enemy shouldn't get a choice of one outcome (pull) or another.

Pull is appropriate for forced movement, not optional movement, so is not appropriate in this instance (in the same way that a warlord grants a shift).

- It shouldn't really be a charm power, as it is generally using physical trickery rather than manipulating the mental model directly (which could also be done by "martial" means, but I don't think is required or likely, here)

The charm effect isn't on the movement, it's on _failing_ to take the movement. It could alternatively be fear based, but there is a mental effect prompting the downside of not moving.

- Damage should have STR added.

It could. Didn't really care one way or another so didn't see a reason to change base CaGI.

- The attack isn't "secondary", as there is no "primary" attack - the earlier part is an "Effect"

Yep, my bad, was only a quick copy-paste hack.

- It removes the most important "controller" aspect of this power; the ability to clump enemies all in one area. Making that trivially resistable is nerfing an important tactical aspect of the power(s).

It has the ability to make enemies make a decision between a serious penalty or being clumped. That's real, and it'd be easy to compare its effectiveness to other powers at its level to see if it passes muster.

 

[the Jester]

Your version is significantly reduced in utility vs. the erratad PH one.

If the enemies aren't clumped up, they can all choose option 2, leaving the fighter having essentially gotten a one-target attack for minimal damage.

 

[Manbearcat]

How about this?

Standard Action Close burst 3
Target: Each enemy you can see in the burst
Effect: Each target chooses to either immediately shift adjacent to the fighter, or to be marked by the fighter and grant combat advantage to the fighter, both until the end of the encounter as a charm effect. After all targets make their choice, the fighter may shift up to 2 squares then make a secondary attack against all adjacent enemies.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1W damage.

That is a terrible name for the ability!

 

[keterys]

Your version is significantly reduced in utility vs. the erratad PH one.

If the enemies aren't clumped up, they can all choose option 2, leaving the fighter having essentially gotten a one-target attack for minimal damage.

Edit: Sorry, you're probably replying to the OP, not my post. If you are replying to me, read below. Otherwise, carry on

So marking and CA until the end of the encounter is useless? Its utility is significantly increased, but its usefulness for forcing AE is significantly decreased. It _is_ designed for people who are offended by the normal version, after all.

And there's a reason there's a shift 2 in there after the choice, so the fighter can have a strategy behind the choice.

It's better than most 7th level powers. Whether that makes it worse than base CaGI, eh, that's a different argument.