D&D 5E The Wonkiness of Tool Proficiency

[SilverfireSage]

I don't find Tool Proficiencies confusing on their own. (You're either proficient or not. That's pretty straightforward.)

The only issue I have is with the Skill/Tool overlaps, like Musical Instrument and Perform.

There isn't much of an overlap there though. If you pick proficiency in Musical Instrument, you can add your proficiency to any check made with that instrument, but you must have the instrument on hand. Perform is for when you don't have the instrument on hand, and is done only with what you can do with your person alone.

 

[The_Gneech]

My thinking with disadvantage was that the rogue was macguyvering his way past the lock using the tip of a dagger and a belt buckle, that kind of thing, not just straight-up using his thumb.

That said, maybe just some blank lines at the bottom of the skill list labeled "Tool Proficiences" would have done the job in this particular case.

-TG

 

[GMMichael]

The invention of the Tool Proficiency also seems intertwined with the removal of Attack Bonuses. Not to mention the streamlining of the Skills list.

Very metagame reasons, but from my perspective, sorely needed.

Yes, it's counter-intuitive to think that knowledge or skill somehow vanishes in the absence of a certain tool, but that's just because the name is misleading.

Call your tool proficiencies "Required-Item-Skills," and maybe they'll sink into place easier?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think the funniest part to me in all of this is that in my group, the three players who had been doing the campaign for years and playing 3.5 and Pathfinder the whole way took hours to finally get this, but the people who had just started for their first time got it right off the bat!

Memo to any long-time D&D players who want to give 5e a try:

[video=youtube;z4jeREy7Pbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4jeREy7Pbc[/video]

 

[Tormyr]

I dont think its wonky at all, your slight of hand is what is used for Thieves tools. So for example if your going to remove a trap, pick a lock your going to use slight of hand and your proficiency mods to apply to the DC.

Scott

Sleight of Hand is not what is used for thieves tools. Tool proficiencies are not tied to any single ability score like skills are, and they are not used when using a skill. Tool proficiency cab be tied to any ability score as the DM sees fit. So removing a trap is proficiency + DEX, which can be different from a rogue's sleight of hand bonus if the rogue is proficient in one but not the other or has expertise in one but not the other.

In any case, the player only applies proficiency or expertise if they have it for that tool, and if the player does not have it, in many cases they cannot use the tool and hope for success.
Removing a trap: thieves' tools + DEX
Convince a potential employer that the rogue is the thief for the job: thieves' tools + CHA
Play the lute: Lute + DEX
Appraise a lute: Lute + Int
Win at dragonchess: dragonchess + Int
Bluff to convince opponent to draw at dragonchess: dragonchess + CHA

The important thing to remember is that the tool lets you add your proficiency or expertise to an ability check (not a skill check) while using the tools.

 

[Henrix]

Chalk me up as one of those who really like it.

To me it's pretty intuitive. You know how to use that stuff.

I see weapon and armour proficiencies as tool proficiencies, and those have been around for a while. The proficiency is not only wearing and using them, but maintaining them, judging them in the store - perhaps recognizing famous makers and styles.

 

[the Jester]

Huh. I find the notion that tool proficiency is confusing to be somewhat baffling. I mean, it's like a skill, only you need the requisite tool. Simple.

Obviously, that's not everyone's experience. I just don't see much room for confusion there.

 

[Umbran]

I can't think of a reason why tool proficiencies couldn't be listed along with skills though.

Because any character can gain any tool proficiency with time. You can't do that with skills.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Because any character can gain any tool proficiency with time. You can't do that with skills.

You can't? I suppose everyone currently going to school should just drop out and quit wasting their time. You are either born with the ability to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. or it isn't going to happen.

Skills are the very definition of things that can be learned in time.

 

[Umbran]

You can't? I suppose everyone currently going to school should just drop out and quit wasting their time. You are either born with the ability to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, etc. or it isn't going to happen.

Skills are the very definition of things that can be learned in time.

Not by the Basic game rules, they aren't.

Training
You can spend time between adventures learning a new language or training with a set of tools. Your DM might allow additional training options.
First, you must find an instructor willing to teach you.The DM determines how long it takes, and whether one or more ability checks are required.
The training lasts for 250 days and costs 1 gp per day. After you spend the requisite amount of time and money, you learn the new language or gain proficiency with
the new tool.

There is no training for new skills in the Basic rules of which I am aware. Just Tools and Languages.