D&D 5E If you aren't buying magic items, where will you spend your gold?

[77IM]

No, you keep trying to make me agree to YOUR opinions.

You might think this playing style isn't roleplaying, and that it is a tacked on shopping mini-game.

But please keep that opinion to yourself. And definitely do not try to present your personal opinion as fact.

Sorry. Usually I decorate my posts with a lot of "in my opinion..."-type statements to make this more clear, but I guess I've been in a hurry lately and stating things more directly. I will try to do better next time.

 

[Sailor Moon]

After thinking about it I have decided that even though I like the changes in magic items and gold I can see the other point of view pretty clearly.

If you play D&D as a kick in the door and kill the monsters so you can steal their stuff, it would be nice to have rule options that support that play style.

A way to turn gold into exp or magic items as well as a huge list of services such as spells cast for the party ect..

Since a LOT of this is going to happen off screen during the off times (the game focus is on Dungeons to a much higher degree) these things are needed.

Now I maintain that these rules don't need to be vast, a few articles should cover most of what this type of play needs. I will even go so far as to admit that the DMG should cover this ground and if it doesn't(we don't know at this point that it doesn't despite opinions) then a opportunity was missed. However a few simple articles by wotc or house rules by a DM and we are back on easy street.

I think this style of play is a LOT more prevalent than some want to consider, even if is mostly mixed into other styles of play or only partially present.


I myself love a good ol fashioned dungeon crawl and one of my groups role plays very little, instead they focus on battles and power acquisition until I have a npc hit em where it hurts and pants them while stealing most of their loot. Once this is done suddenly they turn into role players and really get into the game. It also happens when they all play evil characters. Sometimes with that group I feel like I'm playing in one giant Hackmaster game. That isn't a bad thing just different.

Why does a "kick in the door" style of game have to be associated with buying magic items? I don't see why the two would be linked. If you are kicking in the door, kicking ass, and taking it's stuff, then why not the things you are looting be magic items?

I just don't see it here.

 

[KarinsDad]

Why does a "kick in the door" style of game have to be associated with buying magic items? I don't see why the two would be linked. If you are kicking in the door, kicking ass, and taking it's stuff, then why not the things you are looting be magic items?

I just don't see it here.

It's not that the "kick in the door" style requires magic item purchasing, it's that purchasing magic items is a common option in 1E, 3E, and 4E (discouraged in 2E) and lends itself well to a "kick in the door, don't worry too much about other aspects of the game (for example, maybe like politics)" style of play.


I don't see why people who don't prefer a given style of play argue for pages on end as to why it is subpar. Buying magic items is a common enough theme in D&D that it should have been supported in 5E. Those who do not like it could ignore it and those who do like it could use it.


The link you mention does not have to exist. It's like an all you can eat buffet. Those who like chicken and potatoes can get that. But if the fish is not even served, those who love fish and expect to find it at the buffet think that sucks. Just because you might not see a link between fish and potatoes does not mean that other people do not think that it is a great combination.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I'm glad they didn't put prices in, but can see why people who like that are upset. Hopefully you get some fee DL with that info.

 

[marune]

Role-playing means making decisions according to the role you are playing.

That is one narrow definition of a role-playing game.

For a more encompassing one, try looking into the concept of Shared Imagined Space to understand the fundamental difference between a board game and a role-playing game.

 

[steeldragons]

It's not that the "kick in the door" style requires magic item purchasing, it's that purchasing magic items is a common option in 1E, 3E, and 4E (discouraged in 2E) -snip-

<emphasis mine>
You've mentioned this repeatedly and I simply have to disagree. Magic item "purchasing" was most certainly NOT a "common option" in 1e as in 3 or 4e.

I can not think of a single 1e game I was EVER in or ran or heard of wherein the above emphasized statement was true. Other than potions and scrolls..maybe wands or a +1 weapon/armor.

Yes, the 1e DMG has "GP Sale Value". That is, if you had the magic item and wanted to get rid of it for the cash-money instead. Not that there were NPCs hanging around just waiting for you to drop down 25,000 gp for your Bag of Holding.

I personally never saw play bitd in which players received high value many magic items that they then turned around and "sold off." If you got good stuff. You KEPT it. Even if you didn't use it (cuz you might need it some day). And, for sure, no one/game I ever saw or heard of involved "magic item shopping" [beyond, as I said, simple/small consumable items].

OR, I do recall, selling items off for the gold to get more XP. Since gp was worth XP and the GP values almost always exceed the straight XP values -1e gave separate XP value on the items-, folks could do this to "work the system."...and a handy way to raise large funds when/if you DID want to build that stronghold or raise/pay an army or craft spells or items of your own.

Could you take that value from the 1e DMG and say, "C'mon down to Jack's Magic & Might Marketorium for all your magic-Magic-MAGIC Item need <MAGIC ITEMS!> at low-Low-LOW Gold pieces! ANY magic items you want! <ANY ITEMS!> At DMG prices! <MAGIC ITEMS AT DMG PRICES!> That's Jack's Magic & Might Marketorium. Sun up to Sun down. Everyday except Harvest. Exit 42 off King's Toll Road to Ogre Bridge Blvd. Remember, if it's not M&M, it ain't worth Jack."

Sure. You could. But that is most certainly NOT 1e's RAI or W. No one I ever played with saw them as catalogue entries they could go swing by somewhere and pick it up.

So continuing to site how this was so common and intended in 1e -as it was in 3 and 4e- is kind of...neither true nor fact.

 

[Sailor Moon]

It's not that the "kick in the door" style requires magic item purchasing, it's that purchasing magic items is a common option in 1E, 3E, and 4E (discouraged in 2E) and lends itself well to a "kick in the door, don't worry too much about other aspects of the game (for example, maybe like politics)" style of play.


I don't see why people who don't prefer a given style of play argue for pages on end as to why it is subpar. Buying magic items is a common enough theme in D&D that it should have been supported in 5E. Those who do not like it could ignore it and those who do like it could use it.


The link you mention does not have to exist. It's like an all you can eat buffet. Those who like chicken and potatoes can get that. But if the fish is not even served, those who love fish and expect to find it at the buffet think that sucks. Just because you might not see a link between fish and potatoes does not mean that other people do not think that it is a great combination.

Really, the only reason the games encouraged magic item purchase in 3rd and 4th was the math, then we got the magic item treadmill which really took the mystery out of magic items and made them as common as air. The reason they cut it out of 5th edition was to bring the game more in line with the earlier editions such as 2nd edition. Magic item shops isn't a style of play to be honest, just a different atmosphere and one that apparently most people wanted to get away from, according to the playtest.

Now you can introduce magic item shops all you want but don't bank on this edition to give you very much support with that.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

If what you really enjoy is raiding dungeons, then raid dungeons.

If what you really enjoy is shopping for magic items, well, that's not the same as raiding dungeons, that's a shopping mini-game. People say "If I wanted to be a noble/merchant/guildmaster/etc. I'd have stayed in town." Well I counter with, "If you want to go shopping, play a shopping mini-game."

The shopping minigame is a logical result of the piles of gold the PCs acquire in most long running D&D campaigns of every edition. The question is whether rules of the game make any sense to the players. The different editions took different approaches, but pretending the game is not there only makes the campaign world vastly less plausible.

 

[Chocolategravy]

Well now we know what we're spending our gold on. LOTS AND LOTS of Purple Worm Poison. Who needs wimpy magic items when that lovely stuff is available?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I believe that the once in a blue moon buying of non-minor items in pre-3e was far from rare. In long running campaigns, the PCs were going to pile up astounding amounts of gold. It made sense for a wizard to make a fair deal on acquiring/creating an item for gold and "a little favor" or errand, or similar. It makes for a convenient plot hook for the DM to get the party on board with few questions asked, the PCs get an adventure, and the players are happy about getting that nice item that they have been saving up for. So the PCs are not going to a magic shop, but the party is effectively "buying" one item per several game sessions.

That is very different from a "I am 'porting to Greyhawk. Who wants to go shopping with me?" that we sometimes saw in 3e.