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D&D 5E What would you like to see in a "revised edition" of 5E?

DaveDash

Explorer
The CR ratings are a joke and the encounter guidelines are even worse. We are level 12 now and I swear it is worse than 3.0 let alone 3.5. THe monsters lack the hit points of 4E and the defences of AD&D and 3.x. BA doesn't work so well either.

Unfortunately I tend to agree with you.

I have completely done away with using player rules for NPCs. A CR16 Evil Wizard will have 250 hit points for example, because with the "right" amount he will just get one-shotted unless he wins initiative. It's the only way they can survive.

Also if anything is meant to fight alone, it gets max hit points. Does this remind you of something?

All other encounters now I'm doubling the number to deadly x2, and filling it up with trash mobs as to not give a huge XP boost to the players.

Incidentally... I worked out that it only takes 33 days of adventuring to go from level 1-20 using the guidelines in the book. This does equate to about 145 encounters though which seems a reasonable amount of time out of game, but in game that's super fast and will be even faster if you throw in XP for quest completion etc.
 

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DaveDash

Explorer
When you say it seriously unbalances the game, do you say that from experience playing with the feat and finding the game went all off balance, or are you saying that because you suspect that is the case but have not played with it a lot to verify it?

I am saying that from running encounters using a party made up of level 11, 17, and 20 characters.

A while back we used to do that almost nightly, but now we do a couple of week as we've gone through most of the high level stuff in the monsters manual.

I love this edition, but the design decision to do things based off "feeling" instead of solid maths has a trade off.
It does have a good feeling of diversity vs the samey same feeling of 4th edition, but this edition doesn't make it very easy to run a game that's meant to be challenge based.

This is the story tellers edition. It's not the war gamers edition.
 
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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
The CR ratings are a joke and the encounter guidelines are even worse. We are level 12 now and I swear it is worse than 3.0 let alone 3.5. THe monsters lack the hit points of 4E and the defences of AD&D and 3.x. BA doesn't work so well either.

Dozens of people, in many places, have told you the CR and encounter guidelines work well for them. Obviously your experience differs, and that's OK. But when you are aware that many others have not found the problem you've found, calling it a "joke" seems a bit extreme.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I am saying that from running encounters using a party made up of level 11, 17, and 20 characters.

A while back we used to do that almost nightly, but now we do a couple of week as we've gone through most of the high level stuff in the monsters manual.

And what specifically happened in your games that was "seriously unbalanced"?
 


Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Re-read my post on page 1, then make a DC5 insight check.

OK, I did, I found it did not answer my question.

What specifically happened in your games that was "seriously unbalanced"? Not "What did the players do" but what happened to the game? Did it break? Did people no longer have fun playing? What happened specifically as a result of this issue?
 

DaveDash

Explorer
OK, I did, I found it did not answer my question.

What specifically happened in your games that was "seriously unbalanced"? Not "What did the players do" but what happened to the game? Did it break? Did people no longer have fun playing? What happened specifically as a result of this issue?

I get the feeling you're smart enough to actually figure out what my issues with the game are based on the information I have provided thus far.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I get the feeling you're smart enough to actually figure out what my issues with the game are based on the information I have provided thus far.

I'm not. I'm asking an honest question. I don't know why you've decided to not answer. I am not asking what your issues are with the game. Obviously "I don't like how X works" is not the same as "X causes my game to seriously unbalance." I think I've made that pretty clear at this point, that's not what I am asking. If you just don't want to answer for your own reasons, OK fair enough. But I don't get the "see above" answer you've given so far.
 

Evenglare

Adventurer
No, no to the revision no to all of it. The damn game just came out. There's no way people have played enough to make an honest decision about the game. The simply isn't enough time that has passed. They don't even have the first wave of eratta out that changes blatant errors. Just.. god no don't even talk about me plunking down another 150$ yet. Link 100% related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
 
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DaveDash

Explorer
I'm not. I'm asking an honest question. I don't know why you've decided to not answer. I am not asking what your issues are with the game. I think I've made that pretty clear at this point, that's not what I am asking. If you just don't want to answer for your own reasons, OK fair enough. But I don't get the responses you've given so far.

Alright, I'll bite then.

D&D 5E's beauty is in its simplicity and flavor, but these things can work against it.

The game has solved many complaints of past editions such as combat being very grindy at high levels.

This for me personally however comes at a trade off. The simplicity of the game I fear will limit by long term enjoyment of it, because system mastery is too easy to achieve.
It's too hard to build challenging encounters quickly. It's too easy as a player to gain system mastery. As a war gamer, this is concerning.
This also is a byproduct of bounded accuracy. Bounded accuracy on one hand has simplified the game mechanics, and also improved longevity of the game by making weaker creatures more relevant for longer, but it has also made the balance much harder to get in that sweet spot. 8th level parties can take down a CR16 Dragon for example. The most absurd example I have seen is the Dragon at the start of HoTDQ (CR16) being taken out by a Level 5 party. No matter how badly you played a monster in 3.5e, this would never happen.

The only real bit of content in the game that I have read and thought "wow, that's a challenge" is Taimat, everything else is sub par. Ultimately for me and my group, who are wargamers and not storytellers, this is a problem.
It creates more work for me, work I'd rather not be doing. I'd rather be using content to create encounters, adventures, etc rather than play testing Wizard's of the Coasts work to ensure it's an appropriate challenge, and spending a lot more time reviewing monster CR's and such to ensure they really are going to be an appropriate challenge.

Don't get me wrong, these complaints do not equate to "This game is not fun". It is fun. However, I would have liked them to spend more time focusing on the maths of monsters and how that relates to CR, and more time on how to build effective encounters for groups who like to min/max (where deadly really does mean deadly). Also I would have liked them to have spent more time building a system for actually creating challenges (monster or otherwise) instead of fluff and inspiration on how to do it. The monster building stuff at present is not really a system, it's more advice, and it doesn't live up to my expectations. What's worse is there is only a bare bones system for building challenges out of combat, and in my opinion, this is not good enough.

I would also have expected spells/feats to be more balanced since this game went through a lot of play testing. It took my group a couple of weeks to find some spells/feats/combinations that were just so good you will never pick any others. This limits tactical choice, and has a negative impact on the longevity of the game when you're just doing the same thing over and over.
Yes, the DM can house rule, but as wargamers, we like to play by the rules, and as those who enjoy system mastery; if the system is arbitrary then there is no enjoyment out of mastering it.
 
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