D&D (2024) Things You Think Would Improve the Game That We WON'T See

A system to recalculate the challenge rating or XP reward if the enemies enjoy special adventages, for example traits of monster templates, or advanced weapons like modern firearms.
 

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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Then people need to be educated. I would start with the people at the table, then move in concentric circles.
Can't educate out imbalance.

As look as CON is everyone's favorite secondary score, everyone will treat it that way and it will be an assumption.

People won't take another score as secondary until you make the scores competitive with each other.

Otherwise you will run into standardization then expectation and finally assumption.

  • More STR, INT, and CHA saves
  • More core base feats and items that can be useful with secondary score power
  • Add more core combat (since D&D is plurality combat) features for STR, INT, and CHA ,(I'd love to see Feint, Demoralize, and Disarm be core attack alta)
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Can't educate out imbalance.

As look as CON is everyone's favorite secondary score, everyone will treat it that way and it will be an assumption.

People won't take another score as secondary until you make the scores competitive with each other.

Otherwise you will run into standardization then expectation and finally assumption.

  • More STR, INT, and CHA saves
  • More core base feats and items that can be useful with secondary score power
  • Add more core combat (since D&D is plurality combat) features for STR, INT, and CHA ,(I'd love to see Feint, Demoralize, and Disarm be core attack alta)
All those things would be cool anyway, but I still have no problem with CON being primary for sorcerers.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
All those things would be cool anyway, but I still have no problem with CON being primary for sorcerers.
I don't either.

But I've prefer it to be primary for Warlock instead. Warlocks choose between CON, CHA, AND INT and having an invocation line for each.

CON Sorcerer or I only see if D&D finally allows blood magic.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I don't either.

But I've prefer it to be primary for Warlock instead. Warlocks choose between CON, CHA, AND INT and having an invocation line for each.

CON Sorcerer or I only see if D&D finally allows blood magic.
There was a blood mage prestige class in 3e I think, and plenty in 3pp for 3e and 5e. That counts as D&D allowing it for me.
 

ECMO3

Hero
Half that Warlock Baseline is below the baseline.

Sure, but half the baseline is still competent.

Optimizing both Str based Melee and Dex based Range at the same time take so many class resources that you wont finish until late Tier3 an not be able to take flavor picks.

If I optimize a character for DPR I can beat the Warlock EB/AB baseline in both strength melee and dex ranged at most levels.

Moreover to do this I would take 2 feats before ANY ASIs.

Yes,competent as a defender or blocker. Your damage will suck if you don't take damage feats or focus on ASI on a starting 14.

"Sucking" damage is still more that adequate in 5E. You can be "competent" as an offensive damage dealing martial build with "sucking" damage.

Damage "sucking" works fine at default-level 5E! Knocking out 12 damage per round in tier 2 (after considering hit chances) as the only martial in the party will work in 5E. That is what you seem to not be getting.




Sure. With feats and fighting style.
My point is you can't do 2 types of fighting at once unless they use the same score or same feats or are a ranger.

That is absolutely not true, you can and I have. I can pretty easily build a fighter that beats that Warlock EB/AB baseline at most levels in both strength and dex attacks and I can do it even with 14s to start in both stats.

PHB pg 70. WellRounded Specialists The fighter wasdesigned as a specialist. Barbarian, paladin, and monk too. Only the ranger and roguecan afford to be versatile.

Did you bother to even read the paragraph you quoted?

From page 70: "Every fighter can swing an axe, fence with a Rapier, wield a longsword or Greatsword, use a bow or even trap someone in a net with some degree of skill"

From the PHB every fighter can use both dex and strength weapons with some degree of skill.

Now let me define Competent for you: having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully

So yes according to the very section you quoted every fighter is competent with both dex and strength weapons. I sould suggest that is not actually true if you dummp strength or dex, but it certainly speaks to the design.



Still the case. There is still an accuracy curve. A very forgiving one but it is still there. There are many ways to keep on curve or pass it but the game expectsan offensive character to move on it with starting stats, ASI, feats, magic items, or boons.

Yes and you can be WAY behind the curve and be successful in 5E. What the game "expects" and what is necessary to be successful are two different things.

Furthermore, if you purposefully optimize for it, including racial abilities, subclasses and feats, you can stay on or ahead of that curve in both strength and dex based weapons.

Start out as a Variant Human Fighter with 14 strenght, 14 Dex, using Hand Axes, Two-Weapon fighting, Sharpshooter feat and a Heavy Crossbow and you will be ahead of a 1st level 16 Charisma Warlock EB-Hex baseline blaster using strength melee weapons, strength thrown weapons, Ranged Weapons and you can shoot out to 400 ft without disadvantage while ignoring cover.

Take the right subclass, feats and ASIs and change fighting styles at appropriate levels and you will stay ahead of that Warlock damage baseline and that damage baseline is plenty!

Here is a recipe:
Level 1: V Human Sharpshooter Feat and Two Weapon Fighting fighting style using hand axes and a heavy crossbow.
Level 3: Eldritch Knight (spell slots for Hunters Mark in future)
Level 4: Fey Touched with Hunters Mark
Level 5: Ditch crossbow for a Longbow
Level 6: Strength ASI (16)
Level 8: Strength ASI (18) Change Fighting Style to Great Weapon Fighting. You are now using War Magic with a Maul instead of TWF with axes in melee.
Level 12: PAM feat and you now start with a Maul and then switch to a Pole Arm once HM is up (doing 4 attacks a round with PAM). Change fighting style to Archery.
Level 13: You get 3rd level spell slots here and upcast Shadowblade is now your concentration instead of HM for 2 fights a day. 9d8+12 (3 attacks) plus an offhand 1d6. After these two fights you go PAM + Hunters Mark as above.
Level 14: Strength ASI (20)
Level 16: Dex ASI (16)
Level 19: Dex ASI (18)

This character would be ahead of the warlock EB/AB baseline at both strength and dex attacks at most levels. This is not the only way to do this with a fighter, but it is the easiest way to illustrate it with a simple build and few assumptions.
 
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CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
Can't educate out imbalance.

As look as CON is everyone's favorite secondary score, everyone will treat it that way and it will be an assumption.

People won't take another score as secondary until you make the scores competitive with each other.

Otherwise you will run into standardization then expectation and finally assumption.

  • More STR, INT, and CHA saves
  • More core base feats and items that can be useful with secondary score power
  • Add more core combat (since D&D is plurality combat) features for STR, INT, and CHA ,(I'd love to see Feint, Demoralize, and Disarm be core attack alta)
i think it might be something if concentration was moved away from CON to one of the mental stats, without a set reason to invest in it except it's own health benefits i feel like most casters would invest in it less emphasising how they tend towards the more frail, INT seems the most obvious but i don't like how it'd make the wizard more SAD on the other hand WIS is already a pretty valuable stat.
 

ECMO3

Hero
As look as CON is everyone's favorite secondary score, everyone will treat it that way and it will be an assumption.
People won't take another score as secondary until you make the scores competitive with each other.

On most of my builds Con is typically my 4th stat.

Constitution is generally the weakest stat in the game. There are weaker stats for specific builds but a Constitution above a 12 is generally a waste. The hit point boost you get is not generally worth the investment, you are better off raising your AC and on a caster getting defensive spells and if you actually need more hps get spells that give you temp hit points. The only class Constitution is really important for is a Barbarian and needing Constitution is one reason a Barbarian is such a weak class.

Other stats are not only competitive, they are for the most part better than Constitution. Constitution is tied to no skills at all.

Here are the 5 characters I have in DNDB right now that I did point buy with and the highest Constitution among them is a 12. Two of them went 1st-20th level (the Monk went to 20th but was not leveled past 19 on DNDB). 3 of them are hard melee characters going toe to toe in every encounter and soaking up attacks:







People will bring up concentration, but I find that is overstated. Usually that bonus is not going to make much of a difference and when concentration fails it is rarely a game changer. If you really need the spell up and it is that big a deal you can ususally just cast the spell again and it costs you a slot and an action. The bladesinger above was hard in melee with a 10 Constitution all the way to 20th level and never suffered for it.

On just about any character of any class Wisdom is more important than Constitution because Wisdom saves mean life and death far more than Constitution saves or the meager number of hit points you get with a better Con. Being incapacitated or otherwise unable to use actions due to a failed Wisdom save is usually worse than being at 0 hit points. If you are at 0 hit points someone in the party is usually going to throw a healing word your way and get you back in the fight.

Dexterity is more important too on any class unless you wear heavy armor.
 
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Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
Sure, but half the baseline is still competent.
That's where we disagree.

I'm not saying that you can't a good character with a 14. You can get make a strong defensive PC. OR you can lean on a powerful subclass.

What I was saying from the beginning is, unless the class was designed to go hybrid, the class wont have enough resources to be a two range offensive threat with 2 14s.

I mean even your Fighter build uses a V human and Hunter's mark to be well behind a Warlock (EB +Hex with Max CHA) for half the game. Extreme optimization to be behind a Warlock at range.
 

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