D&D 5E Magic Item Inconsistencies

[CapnZapp]

I suspect they could have used slightly more granularity. Like indexing by tier, as well, so that you have an apprentice tier rare item vs. an epic legendary item. I get the impression they wanted the rarity to do that automagically for them, but then didn't put quite enough rigor into verifying everything.

At any rate, consumables are more common than permanent magic items, regardless of their stated rarity, so yes a rare consumable can be less powerful than a rare permanent item, and that still be consistent.

Similarly, items which require attunement can be better than items which don't, though that theory is lousy in games which are stingy with items.

What they needed to have done is to completely uncouple rarity from price.

Rarity is good to determine how often you find something.

What an adventurer is prepared to pay is something entirely different.

 

[Uchawi]

I believe it ties back to magic in general, when you just look at spells. Is there a power gauge for spells based on level? I doubt it, based on each spell being its own sub-system. That is what makes determining CRs very difficult, so in turn you see very few monsters with a full blown spell list, and that bridges over into magic items and a lack of a true gage for the power of items. But I am not surprised, since 5E is a call back to older editions like AD&D, where you don't gain the benefit of hind sight unless you move forward through 30 years of D&D. And the developers made a conscious decision to ignore the 30 years of hindsight, and stated magic items are optional and not the default.

 

[abirdcall]

What they needed to have done is to completely uncouple rarity from price.

Rarity is good to determine how often you find something.

What an adventurer is prepared to pay is something entirely different.

I think it is. It's just that the optional rules for magic item pricing are bad.

The base rules are good, they just aren't equipped to provide an easy pricing system.

I love the magic item system in 5e. I can see why people who want magic item shops would be disappointed. The game does not handle them well.

Though I think that would be true even with more accurate prices.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I think people are getting tripped up on the word "rarity." As the DMG says, an item's rarity is meant to be a gauge of its over all power - its tier. The term "rarity" is a misnomer. While powerful items do tend to be more rare than weaker ones, the two terms are not always synonymous.

 

[PnPgamer]

I think people are getting tripped up on the word "rarity." As the DMG says, an item's rarity is meant to be a gauge of its over all power - its tier. The term "rarity" is a misnomer. While powerful items do tend to be more rare than weaker ones, the two terms are not always synonymous.

Also i would have a guess that while certain items seemingly are on the same tier, they are different by their types. I think the tiers are within a type of magical items, such as potion, wands, staves, flying enablers, strength belts, etc, and they are not comparable between each other. Previous editions gave better measure with gold costs, as they are now more abstract in 5e.

To give some example, some dms might prefer that potions of any rarity are more common than a mere +1 weapon. I am intending of doing similar with a 2e game i am about to run, which has pretty similar magic item system when comparing to 5e.

 

[Dragonsbane]

The rarity system and its vague nature is the onliny thing I was dissatisfied with for 5e, and my players like crafting so . . .

I expanded the costs by rarity, then go through and find an approximate Caster Level needed to make the item, which helps determine costs.

[TABLE="width: 256"] [TR] [TD="class: xl65, width: 64"]CL [/TD] [TD="class: xl65, width: 64"]Cost (gp)[/TD] [TD="class: xl65, width: 64"]Rarity[/TD] [TD="class: xl65, width: 64"]Days to Craft[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]1[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]100[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Common[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]2[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]200[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Common[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]1[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]3[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]500[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Common[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]2[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]4[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]1000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Uncommon[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]4[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]5[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]2000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Uncommon[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]8[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]6[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]3000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Uncommon[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]12[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]7[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]4000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Uncommon[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]8[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]5000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Rare[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]20[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]9[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]10000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Rare[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]40[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]10[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]15000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Rare[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]60[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]11[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]20000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Rare[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]80[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]12[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]25000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Very Rare[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]100[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]13[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]35000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Very Rare[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]140[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]14[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]50000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Very Rare[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]200[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]15[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]75000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Very Rare[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]300[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]16[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]100000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Very Rare[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]400[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]17[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]125000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Legendary[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]500[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]18[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]150000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Legendary[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]600[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]19[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]200000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Legendary[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]800[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl65"]20[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]250000[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]Legendary[/TD] [TD="class: xl65"]1000[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]
For example, here are the armors and their value and level needed to craft, at 250gp value/day (25gp/day makes high level items almost impossible to make unless the DM allows vast amounts of time to pass):

[TABLE="width: 629"][TR][TD]Property[/TD][TD]Example Item[/TD][TD]CL[/TD][TD]Cost (gp)[/TD][TD]Time to Craft (days)[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Perception/Initiative[/TD][TD]Sentinel Shield[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]4,000[/TD][TD]16[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Resistance (elemental)[/TD][TD]Armor of Resistance[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]4,000[/TD][TD]16[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Swimming[/TD][TD]Mariner's Armor[/TD][TD]7[/TD][TD]4,000[/TD][TD]16[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]AC Bonus, Armor +1[/TD][TD]Armor +1[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]5,000[/TD][TD]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Arrow Snaring[/TD][TD]Arrow-catching Shield[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]5,000[/TD][TD]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]no Stealth / Strength disavantage[/TD][TD]Mithral Armor[/TD][TD]8[/TD][TD]5,000[/TD][TD]20[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Glamered[/TD][TD]Glamoured Studded Leather[/TD][TD]10[/TD][TD]15,000[/TD][TD]60[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]no proficiency req.[/TD][TD]Elven Chain[/TD][TD]10[/TD][TD]15,000[/TD][TD]60[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]AC bonus, Armor +2[/TD][TD]Armor, +2[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Animated[/TD][TD]Animated Shield[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Immovability / AC[/TD][TD]Dwarven Plate[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Resistance / related ability[/TD][TD]Dragon Scale Mail[/TD][TD]12[/TD][TD]25,000[/TD][TD]100[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Fortification[/TD][TD]Adamantine Armor[/TD][TD]13[/TD][TD]35,000[/TD][TD]140[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Etheralness[/TD][TD]Plate Armor of Etherealness[/TD][TD]15[/TD][TD]75,000[/TD][TD]300[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Resistance (magic)[/TD][TD]Spellguard Shield[/TD][TD]15[/TD][TD]75,000[/TD][TD]300[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]AC bonus, Armor +3[/TD][TD]Armor, +3[/TD][TD]16[/TD][TD]100,000[/TD][TD]400[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Immunity / AC[/TD][TD]Efreeti Chain[/TD][TD]18[/TD][TD]150,000[/TD][TD]600[/TD][/TR][TR][TD]Invulnerability[/TD][TD]Armor of Invulnerability[/TD][TD]18[/TD][TD]150,000[/TD][TD]600[/TD][/TR][/TABLE]

 

[ExploderWizard]

DMG. p. 135 "Rarity provides a rough measure of an item's power relative to other magic items."

I think that wasn't the best move to include that in the DMG. Rarity is just that. There are many reasons why an item might be rare. Perhaps the formula for creating such an item might be lost and only a few specimens from ages past survive to be discovered?

All campaigns are different. One cannot assume that EVERY item even exists in a given world. If they do exist, one cannot assume that they can all be crafted, much less that they ARE all crafted and commonly sold.

The fundamental idea is borked.

Price needs to be set on utility, not rarity.

Utility has nothing to do with rarity. Price will be based strictly on what an individual is willing to pay. This will often be more of a factor of rarity than utility. Would you pay through the nose for a very useful item even if there were multiples of that item being sold and you could bargain shop? What if there was only one or two such items in the whole world and the ability to create more has been lost. Now how much would you pay?

What they needed to have done is to completely uncouple rarity from price.

Rarity is good to determine how often you find something.

What an adventurer is prepared to pay is something entirely different.

Again, what the rarity rating actually means will vary from campaign to campaign. In a low magic game "common" might mean " common as any magic item gets" which could actually be fairly rare compared to another setting where common potions are sold in stores.

 

[DEFCON 1]

There's also nothing wrong with not liking a particular game system and choosing not to use it. But that also doesn't mean it still shouldn't be in the game for those that actually find it useful.

I don't use encumbrance and thus all the weights, measures, carrying capacities, and sizes means nothing to me. I find all those things included in the books to be a waste of space. But I also don't care that they included the weights of all the armor and weapons in the equipment charts. They're there because someone finds it useful, so be it. They can have it. No skin off my nose.

 

[Rejuvenator]

The 5E fluff implies to me that (excluding a high magic campaign) more magic items are being found than created. Which items are most likely to be found by adventurers? Magic items are very durable, so durability wouldn't seem to be a factor. Powerful items are harder to create in the current era, but for all we know, a staff of power was easier to create in ancient eras. Cheaper items with weird or niche usages could be less common due to low demand. Then there's supply-and-demand: powerful items would have been hoarded by their owners, and less likely to be left around in dungeons waiting to be discovered. In the current era, retired adventurers are more likely to hoard their most powerful items, thus increasing their rarity.

There's potentially a lot more going on than a direct correlation between rarity in the gameworld and the item's market price.

 

[Blue]

The fundamental idea is borked.

Price needs to be set on utility, not rarity.

Yes and no. I think you need rarity to either prevent everyone from having the same useful items, or from the party having a stash of items for all unusual cases. And the supply part of supply and demand is based on rarity (general usage, not the game term) so rarity should inform pricing. Utility (the demand part) should also inform pricing.