D&D 5E So what exactly is Wizards working on?

Originally Posted by Trickster Spirit

Unfortunately for said players, Wizards doesn't appear to have much interest in the game supplement business anymore, so if 5E as it stands right now isn't enough to keep you onboard, you should go ahead and look at alternatives.

Really that is the heart of the matter I think.

Funny. I look at the releases so far, the online discussions with Mike Mearls, etc. the amount of time spent playtesting and working with the RPG community and I come to the exact opposite conclusion. There seems to be a real excitement from players new and old, and from the team at WotC who are putting this together.

Ilbranteloth
 

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Funny. I look at the releases so far, the online discussions with Mike Mearls, etc. the amount of time spent playtesting and working with the RPG community and I come to the exact opposite conclusion. There seems to be a real excitement from players new and old, and from the team at WotC who are putting this together.

Ilbranteloth

I think that excitement and positism was very much there during playtest. And on into the release of 5E. The problem is that the communication and such dried up after tyranny of dragons came out and now they aren't talking about anything.
The only thing WOTC seemed pumped for recently was the Acquisitions Incorporated game3 at PAX.
They do not seem to be mustering much excitement for Princes of the Apocalypse and they haven't said anything at all about the future beyond that.
Alot of people were pumped and excited by 5E....all that goodwill they generated was and is actually there.
WOTC just needs to do soemthing with it.
 

Reading this thread, and I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't need a bunch of splatbooks to keep me playing the game. I like it. All I need are the core books (and I don't even really need the DMG). They could stop printing right now and I'd still play because I enjoy it. I get this impression that without new material being churned out constantly, their ability to play the game will suddenly end. And that just seems really odd to me.
 

Reading this thread, and I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't need a bunch of splatbooks to keep me playing the game. I like it. All I need are the core books (and I don't even really need the DMG). They could stop printing right now and I'd still play because I enjoy it. I get this impression that without new material being churned out constantly, their ability to play the game will suddenly end. And that just seems really odd to me.

While some people in the thread have said that lots more stuff needs to come out, not everyone has. Some of us just want at least a little more than WOTC is giving.
 

You have nicely laid out my case for me there. GenCon rolls around and WotC has practically nothing ready to sell and makes no announcements. And this is the 5E launch GenCon. Pretty much reflects that D&D is an afterthought as far as WotC is concerned.
OMG, do I need to tickle you to make you smile??
D&D table top is not the only IP Wizards owns, it's up to sales and interest to change its standing ;-)
 

@Sacrosanct

Can you please skip the rhetorical attacks and get to the substance?

How does choosing between brands of jam or any other example in the article you linked relate to WotC publishing additional material for 5E?

Let me give an example where your article is relevant: In miniatures wargaming, a huge amount of WW2-era kits are available in 20mm -- arguably more than any other scale. In the past few years, however, 28mm WW2-era miniatures have been selling very well despite there being a far more limited range of kits available. I believe the key factor is that all those 20mm kits are available from tons of different companies and none of them do a great job of making their product lines easy for potential customers to understand. Meanwhile, the 28mm market for WW2 miniatures has been centralized under one company (Warlord Games, if you are curious) who invested in a graphics-intensive website that is easy for customers to navigate.

Now -- using the same example -- here's how your article is not relevant. Over time, Warlord Games has expanded their range of 28mm WW2 miniatures. They began with the Big Four powers (US, UK, Russian, Germany) and made the most common miniatures for those powers: regular infantry, the tanks that saw the greatest production in history, etc. But over time they have added more options to those lines: variants of certain tanks, special forces, etc. They have also added miniatures for other powers, like France and Italy.

Expanding their line does give the customer more choices -- but it is not driving down their sales. Quite the opposite. Because this is not the type of choice that fosters choosing not to choose, like the confusing state of the 20mm miniatrues market, where customers don't know who makes what even if almost everything is already available.

D&D 5E is much closer to my second example than my first. We are talking about products that expand a single, current product line managed by a single company.

Yes, but the key issue that is frequently lost is what this means to the business. Sales aren't what keep a business going, profits are.

Each product has a production cost, and you don't start making money until that production cost is recouped (which includes R&D, a portion of your operating expenses during the period, advertising, salaries, and actual production costs, etc.). If the release of your next product takes away sales from the first product, then you are cutting into your margin - that is, your profit. If you release too many too quickly, you can get to the point where sales are spectacular, but you aren't making any profit. Which means you are losing money.

But it's amazing what you can find online:

https://www.acaeum.com/library/printrun.html

Note specifically the section talking about the 3rd Edition. "Starting with the launch of 3rd Edition, we've cut down the number of adventures from 6-8 per year to 1 per year, so that has cut down on cannibalization of the market. Thus, sales for a new D&D adventure are now more like 35,000 to 60,000 units."

That's a huge increase in the number of sales per adventure over the 7,000-15,000 units mentioned for the '90s.

Here's the difference: Your preproduction costs are fixed. Once they product is released they are done. Let's say it's $100,000. And say your profit is $10 per unit.
7,000 units = $70,000 margin, and a net loss of $30,000
15,000 units = $150,000 margin, and a profit of $50,000
35,000 units = $350,000 margin and a profit of $250,000
60,000 units = $600,000 margin, $500,000 profit.

Now say you release 4 adventures instead that sell 15,000 units each, for a total of 60,000 units. Your profit? $200,000, less than half of your profit on selling the same number of units for a single product.

Then you decide you want to increase sales more. OK, how about 10 products? And average sales are $10,000 each. The end result, you barely break even. You are competing with yourself and losing.

Purchasing less because there are too many choices is only one potential issue. The real issue is that too many choices can and frequently does reduce your profit. The reason is simple, many people have a limited budget they set aside for a hobby such as this. Maybe it's one book a month. Maybe it's one every 3 months. In addition, they might look at the two products and decide that one looks pretty good, but the other looks great. So they buy the one that looks great to them and skip the other one. Either way, you've taken away a sale from one product that would have sold otherwise in a significant number of opportunities.

Go back and look at the numbers in that article again. The more products released, the less per item were sold, and profits dropped precipitously - to the point that the company (TSR) was bankrupted. Your business model is based on selling 50-150,000 units per item, and you're only selling 7,000-15,000 or less.

Also note that for the same reasons, launching a new edition is far, far more expensive than reprinting an existing edition. Another reason why I think this edition will last a long time.

Ilbranteloth
 

Player's Handbook, Monster Manual, Dungeon Master's Guide, Hoard of the Dragon Queen, Rise of Tiamat, and -in a couple week- Princes of the Apocalypse. All in eight months. With the DM Screen, they're just shy of one product a month.

While WotC may not have written the Tyranny of Dragons adventures, they were still the publisher. It's not *that* different from the dozens of other books principally written by freelancers published in the last dozen years.

And the credits indicate that the WotC D&D team contributed to the adventure as well. I'm sure that they have some responsibility for the product too.

Ilbranteloth
 

[MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION]

Nice post, I fully agree and have posted the same concept with less examples elsewhere -- BUT what has it got to do with the post you quoted? That post challenges the notion that the link posted by Sacrosanct shows that WotC should not print more 5E material because more materials will make customers choose not to choose, i.e., to not buy any(more) 5E products.

Meanwhile, here are my thoughts on the topic you are bringing up:

The relevant formula must be

X + (Y - Z) where

X = license revenues
Y = in-house revenues
Z = in-house expenses

Even if Y is more than Z, it doesn't matter if management is unwilling to fund Z. And that might make sense even if Y is more than Z. Y would have to be greater than Z by some factor in order to justify its budget being increased. I don't think it is hard to imagine Hasbro execs deciding WotC cannot achieve that kind of margin. I mean, WotC has even farmed out the D&D board games which appeared to be the most successful (or at least best received) aspect of 4E.

Meanwhile, X is self-justifying.
 

I'm almost getting to the point where if I were in charge of the IP, this would be the last edition. Release all previous edition material in PDF and digital tool support, and license out adventures.. 5e would be the last and only edition with print support directly. Then focus the IP in things like cartoons, video games, and toys.
 

I'm almost getting to the point where if I were in charge of the IP, this would be the last edition. Release all previous edition material in PDF and digital tool support, and license out adventures.. 5e would be the last and only edition with print support directly. Then focus the IP in things like cartoons, video games, and toys.
You are not far from what (I think) WotC is currently doing. They need to maintain some physical market presence, however, to make sure their brand is not diluted by Pathfinder or another contender. To most people, D&D and TTRPG are synonymous. WotC has to keep it that way. The rest is (seemingly) about minimizing investment and maximizing licensing revenue.
 

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