D&D 5E 5e Fighter, Do You Enjoy Playiing It?

[MechaPilot]

Wizards presumably get their subclass at second level because WotC tries to avoid "dead levels" where nothing is happening. At second level, fighters get their Action Surge, clerics get a Channel Divinity shtick, and wizards get Minor Conjuration/Portent/whatever. At third level, fighters get a subclass and wizards and clerics get second level spells. Moving wizard and cleric subclassing to level three would make level two a dead level.

I didn't say move the subclasses later. If WotC felts the subclasses needed to be earlier, they should have moved them all earlier.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I didn't say move the subclasses later. If WotC felts the subclasses needed to be earlier, they should have moved them all earlier.

Sorry, then I should have said, "if wizards got their subclasses at level one, level two would be a dead level for them; and level three would be a dead level for fighters."

 

[MechaPilot]

Sorry, then I should have said, "if wizards got their subclasses at level one, level two would be a dead level for them; and level three would be a dead level for fighters."

Because when you move things around you can only ever move one thing?


If you move subclass to level one for the wizard, it sounds like arcane recovery is a prime candidate to be bumped up to the second level feature.

 

[Nebulous]

DM only here. Oddly, since running 5e no one in my group has played a full fighter. Just now with PoA, we have a triple multi-class with fighter/druid/rogue, so even that is so diluted to be unrecognizable. But i'm VERY pleased to see that so many people like the class!

 

[Ashrym]

I find 1st and 2nd levels go by fast, and most groups who don't like them just start at 3rd level. Avoiding dead levels makes sense to me.mechanically, and the classes still gain abilities even though these abilities are within the class instead of subclass.

Some classes gain more subclass abilities than others for the same reason.

In the case of fighters, I find the distinction from background and fighting styles differentiating enough. Those both start the customization off early because a sword and board noble is not the same as an archer criminal. It's these early choices that differentiate fighters within the same subclass as well. Subclass simply isn't the only conceptual development point.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Um, no. I created the pool asking if people had fun playing the fighter, and was ready to accept any and all answers. How is that cheerleading my personal vision? Isn't having fun the most important part of the game? Did you not read my original post where I talked about things like balance being wrapped up into the "fun" umbrella. It's not like I created a poll, and if the results didn't turn out the way I want, decided to claim it was flawed or otherwise invalid.

Your sour grapes are showing.

Dude, your poll shows that roughly quarter of the respondents PLAYING a class are either not having fun, or think it is mediocre. That excludes those who quit the class or didnt pick it up because it looked boring/underwhelming/weak. IMO, that is indicitive of a significant room for improvement. You can have fun playing something and still recognize it's not up to par. Hell, I had fun with 1st edition hanging out with my friends, but still think its terrible rules design.

 

[the Jester]

Dude, your poll shows that roughly quarter of the respondents PLAYING a class are either not having fun, or think it is mediocre. That excludes those who quit the class or didnt pick it up because it looked boring/underwhelming/weak.

First off, right now it's 20 out of 135, or less than 1/6. So there's that. Second, the poll doesn't exclude anyone who played it and quit; it includes anyone who has played a fighter. Your arguments here seem a little weak on accuracy to me.

 

[Sacrosanct]

First off, right now it's 20 out of 135, or less than 1/6. So there's that. Second, the poll doesn't exclude anyone who played it and quit; it includes anyone who has played a fighter. Your arguments here seem a little weak on accuracy to me.

Yeah, hence my sour grapes comment. And really, anything over 50% was a surprise to me. So 80% positive is a pretty strong message, IMO. Especially in an internet poll That's about as much of a consensus as you can get.

*Also, point of note, it includes anyone who played with another player who played a fighter too. The only real restriction was to not count those who haven't played a fighter and just don't like fighters anyway in general.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I didn't say the fighter wasn't strong at first level. If I may ask, where did you get the idea that I was saying that?

I said that there isn't much mechanical differentiation of fighters before getting their subclass. To me, all fighters feel practically the same at level one and two. Sure, you get fighting style at level one and you can pick whatever weapons you want to use, but that only creates the very little difference that I've seen in the lowest level fighters.


Also, many of the fighting styles are passive bonuses, and I find that quite boring as it blends into the background. I'm glad they're there for people that like that kind of thing, but I would have loved a couple of more active options.

Hm... maybe interpreted too much into your post. My bad.
I don´t mind more active options. With human variant you can get some of them. Shield bash, charger, great weappon master and so on...

In my opinion selecting a fighting style and weapon is enough complexity for level 1. With 12 hp or so there is only so much you can do anyway. It is enough for a new player. I don´t believe it is bad, that experienced groups start at level 3. At this level defense and offense starts to equalize, and tactics during fights play a larger role. Before that, it is more important how you start a fight.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Because when you move things around you can only ever move one thing?


If you move subclass to level one for the wizard, it sounds like arcane recovery is a prime candidate to be bumped up to the second level feature.

That would make Diviner a very, very tempting one-level dip.