Nebulous
Legend
Yeah, hitting a PC when he/she is down is the fastest way to kill any character any level. Two auto death failures from the crit, so their next roll on their turn could be fatal.
D&D 5E can you do a mega-dungeon in 5th Edition?
- Thread starter JmanTheDM
- Start date
Yeah, hitting a PC when he/she is down is the fastest way to kill any character any level. Two auto death failures from the crit, so their next roll on their turn could be fatal.
Li Shenron
Legend
I confess I didn't quite get the problem here, because almost all those 'features' made me think that 5e is actually more suited for a mega-dungeon adventure, exactly because you aren't going to lose a PC every 2 rooms and have to create a new one.
This is a good point. I've run mega-dungeons in 5E (Stonehell and Rappan Athuk for the most part).
As a DM, I actually want the players to explore more of the dungeon. There is so much to experience and discover in a mega-dungeon, and for me, a big part of the fun comes from running the players through all that stuff. The short rest feature allows groups to have more staying power and helps them recover from a bad encounter and lets them experience more of the dungeon.
As far as making it work... I just use the content as written and substitute 5E mechanics / monsters in. Traps and poison that are save or die: I use the Deadly recommendations in the DMG. I tend to follow 5E conventions as much as possible, but I don't sit down and work out appropriate XP budgets for encounters (a waste of time in a mega-dungeon).
But as already mentioned in the thread, getting the old-school mega dungeon feel to work in 5E has more to do with how you run the game than how you convert the rules.
1. Downplay ability checks / skills. Only ask for ability / skill checks if there is no other means of adjudicating an action. Rely first and foremost on role-playing and description. If the player says they search an area for a secret door and one is there, they find it... no perception check required.
2. Have monsters behave intelligently based on situation or at least have a Reaction and Morale system in place. A key feature of a mega-dungeon is that it is a living breathing place and creatures behave in ways that can be anticipated by the players. Another key element is that monsters don't just attack at first sight... negotiation is sometimes possible... this allows players to learn about the dungeon or gain favor with a certain faction.
3. Keep accurate track of time. Older editions had 'Dungeon Turns" that were 10 minutes. It took a Turn for a group to search a room. Wandering monsters are checked every 2 turns. The passing of time creates a tension that adds weight to player choices.
4. Require players to map and require them to direct their travel in the dungeon. The players don't get to say "we go to the 3rd level" or "we leave the dungeon." They are required to tell you how they get to where they want to go. This attention to detail sounds tedious but it builds a sense of familiarity and mastery of the dungeon.
5. I would strongly advise against any kind of milestone XP or "level up when you want them to level" approach. A big part of mega-dungeons is the risk-reward choice. Usually the deeper in the dungeon you go, the greater the danger/threat but also the greater the treasure. If you just level them up to the appropriate level when they reach the next level of the dungeon, you remove that choice from your players. An objective and quantitative experience system is better suited.
Old thread dredged up from the past! 
so, I've been running a mega-dungeon in 5e for over a year now, and yes it can be done, but I've had to modify 5e somewhat to make this work. here are my experiences in no particular order. I've been running Rappan Athuk for a group of 5 players. everyone started at 1st, and they are now all 5th or 6th levels.
1) Encounters are too easy in RA. simply converting them over (Where I can), makes for battles that are too easy. 4 skeletons in 1st edition against a party of 4 is decidedly LESS difficult for exactly the same encounter in 5th edition. I've generally doubled most encounteres. I try and avoid Solo encounters, and I am now heavily adding class levels to named monsters to allow them a chance when fighting a PC. the specter is no longer simply a specter, (because the powers are so nerfed in 5th as compared to 1st), now it's a specter that is also a level 5 sorcerer for example.
2) insta death traps remain exactly how it is outside of combat. you put your hand in the mouth, you die, no save, if the text says insta death. however, in combat, if the creature has insta-death type powers (level drain, poison etc), I run that as 5th edition rules as written. there are a couple edge cases where this is off, but in general, this has worked for us.
3) old school required certain resource management and time management - which no longer exists (thanks good berry). so what would have been interesting encounters where resource management, getting lost, etc. would have mattered no longer dont. PC's are simply too powerful and equipped with methods to overcome these. I've had to move on.
4) old school magic resistance (eg. 60% change to resist magic) doesn't exist. this has made things much easier for PC's because advantage on saves while awesome, isn't good enough.
5) Long/Short rests haven't turned out to be as bad as I initially thought. it's important to keep good time. It's important to ensure that 1 long rest every 24 hours. its' important to roll random encounters during long rests. I've also house ruled the need to don/doff armour for long rests to take effect. this has made resting a bit more painful and requires a bit more strategic thinking
6) if I can't drain food resources, I've resorted to medicine kits. to use a hit die, to stabilize a dead PC, and to heal after rests all require the use of healing kits. they have 10 uses. once done, can't heal except by slow natural means. PC's now own LOTS of medicine kits.
7) Progress is slower than older editions. more choice means more sitting around debating the options. Having run RA using both S&W and 5th edition I would say our exploration is roughly 50% to 75% what it was in S&W. Fights also take longer because of how I've had to bulk encounters up.
the experience has been generally more positive than I first thought. it's has taken a few house rules and adjustments to make it *feel* more like an old school dungeon crawl, but the players seem to be really enjoying it and there is significant emergent play and "fear of dying" that is happening every game session!
Cheers!
J.
so, I've been running a mega-dungeon in 5e for over a year now, and yes it can be done, but I've had to modify 5e somewhat to make this work. here are my experiences in no particular order. I've been running Rappan Athuk for a group of 5 players. everyone started at 1st, and they are now all 5th or 6th levels.
1) Encounters are too easy in RA. simply converting them over (Where I can), makes for battles that are too easy. 4 skeletons in 1st edition against a party of 4 is decidedly LESS difficult for exactly the same encounter in 5th edition. I've generally doubled most encounteres. I try and avoid Solo encounters, and I am now heavily adding class levels to named monsters to allow them a chance when fighting a PC. the specter is no longer simply a specter, (because the powers are so nerfed in 5th as compared to 1st), now it's a specter that is also a level 5 sorcerer for example.
2) insta death traps remain exactly how it is outside of combat. you put your hand in the mouth, you die, no save, if the text says insta death. however, in combat, if the creature has insta-death type powers (level drain, poison etc), I run that as 5th edition rules as written. there are a couple edge cases where this is off, but in general, this has worked for us.
3) old school required certain resource management and time management - which no longer exists (thanks good berry). so what would have been interesting encounters where resource management, getting lost, etc. would have mattered no longer dont. PC's are simply too powerful and equipped with methods to overcome these. I've had to move on.
4) old school magic resistance (eg. 60% change to resist magic) doesn't exist. this has made things much easier for PC's because advantage on saves while awesome, isn't good enough.
5) Long/Short rests haven't turned out to be as bad as I initially thought. it's important to keep good time. It's important to ensure that 1 long rest every 24 hours. its' important to roll random encounters during long rests. I've also house ruled the need to don/doff armour for long rests to take effect. this has made resting a bit more painful and requires a bit more strategic thinking
6) if I can't drain food resources, I've resorted to medicine kits. to use a hit die, to stabilize a dead PC, and to heal after rests all require the use of healing kits. they have 10 uses. once done, can't heal except by slow natural means. PC's now own LOTS of medicine kits.
7) Progress is slower than older editions. more choice means more sitting around debating the options. Having run RA using both S&W and 5th edition I would say our exploration is roughly 50% to 75% what it was in S&W. Fights also take longer because of how I've had to bulk encounters up.
the experience has been generally more positive than I first thought. it's has taken a few house rules and adjustments to make it *feel* more like an old school dungeon crawl, but the players seem to be really enjoying it and there is significant emergent play and "fear of dying" that is happening every game session!
Cheers!
J.
Hey instead of double the number of creatures just give them character levels -- almost all my humanoid creatures alive or undead had character levels in all versions of D&D that I ran 1st through 4th and will have them in 5e when I get that game finally started. As for magic resistance are there not spells that can be used to mimic old school magic resistance? You could implement one of those a creature ability useable however often seems legit. Yeah that not having to take armor off is crock, armor was never designed to be slept in granted you might get away with it in say leather or hide but the metal stuff no way. So does food not run out in 5e ?
Another strong change I would suggest, do away with Dark Vision for most if not all living creatures and replace it with Low Light Vision -- okay so they still do not need torches but it does require them to be careful about how they are using their light source as those can telegraph their presence and let the bad guys see them coming before they even know the bad guys are there
Just a couple of ideas -- oh and I am playing in a 5e Dungeon Dive game -- and keeping characters alive has been rather touch and go actually
Another strong change I would suggest, do away with Dark Vision for most if not all living creatures and replace it with Low Light Vision -- okay so they still do not need torches but it does require them to be careful about how they are using their light source as those can telegraph their presence and let the bad guys see them coming before they even know the bad guys are there
Just a couple of ideas -- oh and I am playing in a 5e Dungeon Dive game -- and keeping characters alive has been rather touch and go actually
Psikerlord#
Explorer
5e is made for megadungeons, really. Really hard to die. Lots of healing, extra rests via short rests. Easier to run a megadungeon than ever before.
I have not noticed it mentioned yet in the thread, but have you looked at how the Doomvault is handled in Tales from the Yawning Portal?
AmerginLiath
Adventurer
My first thought, regarding early advancement, is to design the “first level” differently, more of a open/above-ground foyer or courtyard area that they explore before going under at Level 3 (I’m actually reminded of hitting the Moathouse before going down into the Temple of Elemental Evil).
And, as has been hinted at, replace XP-for-gold with story-XP-for-escaping-with-loot (effectively the safe thing in the end, especially if you play old-school logistics where fights chance losing the gold).
And, as has been hinted at, replace XP-for-gold with story-XP-for-escaping-with-loot (effectively the safe thing in the end, especially if you play old-school logistics where fights chance losing the gold).
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Slit518
Adventurer
Is Tomb of Annihilation a Mega-Dungeon?
I was running a mega-dungeon for 5th edition with a few friends. First, you can have certain magics not work in the dungeon. For example mine was any teleporting, plane shifting, resurrection magic.
Second is emphasis on survival gear, such as food, water, torches, etc... If they want to dedicate spells (resources) to this, allow them to.
Darkvision doesn't discern detail, just basic ideas. So if somebody has Darkvision and they are in the dark, you could give them vague ideas of something, but they can miss the finer details.
Encounter things are a good thing. This is how I run mine -
1-15 is Nothing
16-20 is Roll from the table.
I then have a second 1-20 where I have the encounter list.
I pre-roll a bunch of rolls, usually around 100.
I will have 100 pre-determined outcomes from the encounter table.
Each time the party enters a room or hallway for the 1st time, I tick one off one from the encounter table. (planned rooms/scenarios don't need to consult the encounter table)
Each time the party makes a loud sound, I tick one off from the encounter table.
Each time the party rests (Short Rest or Long Rest), I tick one off for each hour of rest from the encounter table. An encounter disrupts the rest, no rest benefit is given.
A character with proper night's rest, sufficient drink, and sufficient food could gain a point of Inspiration upon the morning.
Characters that get gravely injured could suffer a "wound", a level of exhaustion. The more "wounded" they are, the more exhaustion they have. Taking proper care of a wound upon a long rest and using a hit-die can relieve one level of exhaustion. No more than 1 level can be removed at once.
Exhaustion can also be given to a character who has had insufficient Sleep, Drink, or Food. Levels of exhaustion accrued this way can be taken care of by doing whichever of the 3 activities caused it. Characters can not gain Inspiration while they suffer any levels of exhaustion.
I was running a mega-dungeon for 5th edition with a few friends. First, you can have certain magics not work in the dungeon. For example mine was any teleporting, plane shifting, resurrection magic.
Second is emphasis on survival gear, such as food, water, torches, etc... If they want to dedicate spells (resources) to this, allow them to.
Darkvision doesn't discern detail, just basic ideas. So if somebody has Darkvision and they are in the dark, you could give them vague ideas of something, but they can miss the finer details.
Encounter things are a good thing. This is how I run mine -
1-15 is Nothing
16-20 is Roll from the table.
I then have a second 1-20 where I have the encounter list.
I pre-roll a bunch of rolls, usually around 100.
I will have 100 pre-determined outcomes from the encounter table.
Each time the party enters a room or hallway for the 1st time, I tick one off one from the encounter table. (planned rooms/scenarios don't need to consult the encounter table)
Each time the party makes a loud sound, I tick one off from the encounter table.
Each time the party rests (Short Rest or Long Rest), I tick one off for each hour of rest from the encounter table. An encounter disrupts the rest, no rest benefit is given.
A character with proper night's rest, sufficient drink, and sufficient food could gain a point of Inspiration upon the morning.
Characters that get gravely injured could suffer a "wound", a level of exhaustion. The more "wounded" they are, the more exhaustion they have. Taking proper care of a wound upon a long rest and using a hit-die can relieve one level of exhaustion. No more than 1 level can be removed at once.
Exhaustion can also be given to a character who has had insufficient Sleep, Drink, or Food. Levels of exhaustion accrued this way can be taken care of by doing whichever of the 3 activities caused it. Characters can not gain Inspiration while they suffer any levels of exhaustion.
