D&D 5E So, 5e OGL

[pkt77242]

I see this hubris a lot on this forum from a handful of folks. It's bunk. I game with folks at various conventions, gamedays, and locally who have no knowledge or only passing knowledge of EN World and are every bit as dedicated to gaming as (more so in many cases than) folks on these boards, and just or more Internet-savvy. EN World is a slice of a pie not the icing on a cake. I wish folks would drop this fallacious argument once and for all.

1. Jester said that ENworld and the message board community, so he was not saying that ENWorld is the icing on the cake.

2. You think that his argument isn't supported by facts but then you use anecdotal evidence to try and support your idea.

 

[Jester David]

I see this hubris a lot on this forum from a handful of folks. It's bunk. I game with folks at various conventions, gamedays, and locally who have no knowledge or only passing knowledge of EN World and are every bit as dedicated to gaming as (more so in many cases than) folks on these boards, and just or more Internet-savvy. EN World is a slice of a pie not the icing on a cake. I wish folks would drop this fallacious argument once and for all.

I in no way meant people who don't visit ENWorld are not dedicated fans. People you see at conventions can absolutely be as dedicated. They're going to a flipping convention; of course they're dedicated to the game.

However, there are a LOT of people who only buy the PHB and that's the only book they buy. There's also people who game regularly and enjoy gaming but don't even buy the books. They're still "gamers" and "D&D players" and part of the audience, they're just not consumers. They're dedicated while at the table and have fun, but they don't much think about the game between sessions. Heck, we know there are some million D&D players out there but the PHB only sells a few hundred thousand copies. So likely half to 3/4 of the audience doesn't buy the books, but just uses books provided at the table.
If half your audience doesn't care about buying your own books, why would they care about 3rd Party publishers?

 

[Mark CMG]

1. Jester said that ENworld and the message board community, so he was not saying that ENWorld is the icing on the cake.

2. You think that his argument isn't supported by facts but then you use anecdotal evidence to try and support your idea.

It's a regular canard to suggest EN World (and even other online RPG/messageboard communities) are somehow more dedicated and it isn't fact nor true. There are plenty of dedicated fans of OGL offerings who never frequent messageboard of any kind but still purchase such products.

 

[pkt77242]

It's a regular canard to suggest EN World (and even other online RPG/messageboard communities) are somehow more dedicated and it isn't fact nor true. There are plenty of dedicated fans of OGL offerings who never frequent messageboard of any kind but still purchase such products.

I think that you are missing the point, it is not that they are more dedicated then all other gamers. The point is that they are not representative of the typical gamer. A representative sample of gamers would have some casual players, some hardcore gamers and some people in-between. By nature people who are willing to go online (or for that matter pay to go to conventions about gaming) and discuss gaming for hours and hours are not representative of the whole population of gamers, that is the point.

ETA: Also people who come to an online community to discuss gaming are generally more dedicated then the average gamer (again not all gamers).

 

[Wicht]

If half your audience doesn't care about buying your own books, why would they care about 3rd Party publishers?

Cuz they like the adventures their DMs run, and when they ask, the DM tells them the publisher.

Certainly not all consumers are informed, but I think Mark is right that the number that are informed is greater than sometimes we "really-well-informed" give credit for.

 

[Jester David]

Cuz they like the adventures their DMs run, and when they ask, the DM tells them the publisher.

This assumes that the players know enough about the game to realize that 3PP exist and that the DM was running a 3PP adventure. Let alone that it was done under a special licence.
That's some insider knowledge right there.

 

[Mark CMG]

I think that you are missing the point, it is not that they are more dedicated then all other gamers. The point is that they are not representative of the typical gamer. A representative sample of gamers would have some casual players, some hardcore gamers and some people in-between. By nature people who are willing to go online (or for that matter pay to go to conventions about gaming) and discuss gaming for hours and hours are not representative of the whole population of gamers, that is the point.

ETA: Also people who come to an online community to discuss gaming are generally more dedicated then the average gamer (again not all gamers).

That assumes that people who are part of messageboard communities are all (or even more likely to be) dedicated gamers, and that isn't true either. I know some folks like to number themselves as "insiders" while excluding others based on some criteria that includes themselves but it isn't the case.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That assumes that people who are part of messageboard communities are all (or even more likely to be) dedicated gamers, and that isn't true either.

there is one of those circle graph things to show overlap in the making here.

There are people who are highly internet savy and use boards all the time and are only casual gamers... they probably are on here (or candle kepe or rpgnow or god help them wotc)

there are dedicated players who don't use the internet to talk about things... they are probably not here.

there are dedicated players spending time on this board to BS and argue about games...

here is the problem of course group 3 makes up more then 1, that would be absurd to say otherwise... but by it's nature that means we do not have a full pie slice of gamers on here.


when I worked with the census there was a lot of talk about getting everyone and getting most people. The one thing I will say is this, if .017% of people on enworld are vocal about the OGL we can assume atleast 10x that is passive but still wants it... we are still at less then 10% of people on enworld...

 

[Wicht]

This assumes that the players know enough about the game to realize that 3PP exist and that the DM was running a 3PP adventure. Let alone that it was done under a special licence.
That's some insider knowledge right there.

I don't think its as insider as you are suggesting (which I guess is the point of contention). Granted a newbie won't know, but anyone who has played for a while is going to pick up on some of these things. Its just the nature of people to learn things relative to that which they find interesting or enjoyable. Do I think its 50% of the DnD Audience? Maybe not. Do I think its greater than 1%? Most definitely.

 

[pkt77242]

That assumes that people who are part of messageboard communities are all (or even more likely to be) dedicated gamers, and that isn't true either. I know some folks like to number themselves as "insiders" while excluding others based on some criteria that includes themselves but it isn't the case.

You can believe whatever you want but if you really don't think that on most people who frequent message boards are more likely to be dedicated gamers (not that every single one is, but on average) then the average gamer, I am completely flabbergasted. I am sure that many people love to come waste their time on gaming messageboards when they aren't really into gaming.

ETA: Not that every gamer on here is dedicated, and not that there aren't dedicated games who never go online, just that on average we are not representative of the gaming community.