D&D 5E Is WotC over-thinking the Ranger?

[EditorBFG]

I feel like a lot of folks are defending poor game design-- game design WotC's own surveys indicate a plurality of respondents think sucks-- as if it were on purpose to serve some subtler plan. I think the "Sorry guys, we goofed" tone of D&D team posts on the subject shows the rest of us aren't merely imagining a problem. I just happen to think it is a simple problem with a simple fix.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm afraid so. WotC seems to grossly misinterpret people's dissatisfaction with the ranger as needing a complete overhaul, when a few specific fixes would go a long way of making the current ranger class viable.

Then, and only then, they are more than welcome to add their ideas to the game as NEW classes. Spirit companions? Add Shaman to the game, but don't contort the "ranger" name!

I would play a Ranger iff the following issues were addressed:

1) Ranger abilities work much better for ranged than melee hunters.
1a) There need's to be a melee-friendly version of Hunter's Mark. By melee-friendly I mean "no concentration".
1b) Dual-wielding eats up the same bonus action needed for many ranger abilities.
2) Accept that a combat pet is inherently unbalanced, and that a balanced pet will be unfun. That is, design the animal companions for those who are willing to give the beastmaster more than her share of the spotlight; and tell those who don't that they don't have to allow the subclass.
2a) The animal companion absolutely must pass the fireball test: any level-appropriate area attack should not cripple the pet; or it becomes a liability, not an asset.
2b) The animal companion absolutely must pass the WTF test: being given the same freedom to act as any other NPC, summoned creature or familiar.
2c) The animal companion absolutely must pass the emotional attachement test: the class needs the tools required for the AC to stay alive as long as its Master stands. Class design must NOT expect the AC to be discarded and replaced.
3) The upper halve of the Ranger class is lacking. Put simply, there isn't enough going to justify staying in the class. Not talking about level 20 capstones here (I couldn't care less about what happens in probably less than 0.1% of all playing sessions). Talking about the fact how this class lacks features that scale automatically with level the way fighters, rogues, paladins and barbarians have.

In fact, the Ranger's problem is that you can create a Fighter with the Outlander background and call yourself a Ranger. At low levels, everybody is roughly the same, so that's not a complaint. But it becomes a major class weakness when even at high levels nobody would be able to call your Fighter out on her claims, the way you could never pass for a high-level Druid, or Rogue, or even Barbarian.

The high-level Ranger needs an injection of the fantastical: draw inspiration from the Horizon Walker and similar classes (perhaps even the Monk!) to make even a spell-less Ranger capable of fantastical feats related to the environment (including non-mundane things like spiderclimbing, shortrange teleports and so on)

 

[Bayonet]

Well, the concept of "favored enemy" is kind of an archetype ability. I think the 5e direction of letting you divide up between different kinds of humanoids is a good step.

I like the ranger, too. But I think more of the problem is the ranger has lots of terrain dependent effects and alot of people neglect the Ranger's great detection and scouting abilities and just want a dual wield fighter or archer fighter.

I agree. The Ranger seems like it has great non-combat skills and good combat skills, meaning that it can hold its own in a tussle, but really shines when it comes to the exploration/travel/etc part of a game.

I think a lot of the complaints are coming from people who want the Ranger to just be a Fighter, only with some extra nature-y stuff.

 

[CapnZapp]

This question boils down to the single question:

How much fighting prowess are you willing to give up for those detecting and scouting abilities?

For me, too much of what the Ranger brings is one of two things and too little is a third thing:
1) passive group benefits. Example: "difficult terrain doesn't slow your group's travel". Why should I pay - in combat prowess - for something everybody gains from?
2) benefits that is incompatible to D&D as a group activity. Example: "when traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace". Anything that turns the game into a one-man show is bad. Solo mini-scenarios such as "you'll stay behind while I scout out the mind flayer camp to find the princess" have no place at my tables.
3) things that make my character better at the things we do together, without completely overshadowing the other characters' abilities. A "force multiplier" as it were. The most common group activity in D&D, and by far its most well mechanically supported, is combat. In fact, few other activities count since social activities far too often boil down to "the face talking" and exploration far too often boil down to "you clumsy oafs stay back".

When it comes to the Ranger, I consider the following class features worthwhile:

* Spells. A few spells have high value, but most are things I'm not prepared to pay for. Hunter's Mark doesn't count, since I view it as an integral part of how the Ranger stays combat viable. Essentially, it's a tax; eating most if not all your slots.
* Primeval Awareness. A cool ability that does not mean you solve things by yourself. Instead, you make a valuable contribution that acts like a force multiplier. This one should have gotten better with level.
* Land's Stride. Okay I guess to help you move around a battlefield.
* Hide in Plain Sight, Vanish and Feral Senses. The actual abilities are useful, but way too weak for its tier. If relying on class levels means you will probably be the last one to get it, something is wrong.
* Foe Slayer should come sufficiently early that you get to enjoy it through a large part of your career. As a capstone ability, it's laughable.

If the Ranger got ALL OF THIS no later than level 11, AND - most importantly - significant bits of it continued to get better with level, AND the class got other stuff at high level (levels 14, 18 and 20?) that actually impresses a high-level hero, then I would consider it worthwhile.

No scratch that, then I would consider it a success; and I would gladly give up the difference in pure combat prowess.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't think they are overthinking. The problem is that there is too many "rangers" to think about in the first place.

THE BIG BAD LIST O' RANGERS

• Rangers by Flavor
  • The Combat Ranger
    • The Archer Ranger
    • The Dual Wielding Ranger
    • The Great Weapon Ranger
  • The Magic Ranger
    • The Warrior-Druid Ranger
    • The Magic Arrow Ranger
  • The Skill Ranger
    • The Stealth Ranger
    • The Perception Ranger
    • The Knowledge Ranger
    • The Animal Ranger
    • The Plant Ranger
    • The Trap Ranger
• Ranger by Mechanic
  • The Equipment specialist Ranger
    • Weapon
      • Ranged
      • Melee
      • Ranged AND Melee
    • Traps
      • Traps are Magic
      • Traps are Mundane
    • Pet
      • Pet is Magical
      • Pet is Mundane
  • The Beast Master Ranger
    • Beast as Focus
    • Beast as Helper
    • No Beast By Default
  • The Magic Ranger
    • Full Caster
    • Half Caster
    • Third Caster
    • Not a Caster
  • The Slayer Ranger
    • Favored Enemy Based
    • General Damage
  • The Spell casting Ranger
    • Magic as Focus
    • Magic ad Supplementary
    • No Magic at all
    • No Spells but has Magical Powers
  • The Exploration Ranger
    • Exploration Primary
      • Combat Equal to Fighter
      • Combat Equal to Paladin
      • Combat Equal to Rogue
    • Exploration Secondary
      • Combat Equal to Fighter
      • Combat Equal to Paladin
      • Combat Equal to Rogue
  • The Skillbased Ranger
    • Survival/Tracking
    • Stealth
    • Perception
    • Nature
    • Insight

I've seen every one of the above in a game, book, movie, comic, or artwork. It's a lot to think about.

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't think they are overthinking. The problem is that there is too many "rangers" to think about in the first place.

No, you're the one that is overthinking it. Massively so, I might add.

If they fix the class and two subclasses that is in the PHB that would take most of the heat away just like that.

Then all of those other character concepts can appear in future splatbooks. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Minigiant]

No, you're the one that is overthinking it. Massively so, I might add.

If they fix the class and two subclasses that is in the PHB that would take most of the heat away just like that.

Then all of those other character concepts can appear in future splatbooks. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'm not overthinking.
All I need for the ranger is more spells. Most beast friendly spells. Alternatives for hunter's mark. More spells. WoTC always hands out the spells splats.

The problem is a loud percentage of the fanbase wants stuff of that list.

EDIT: Exactly 5 spells.

I can "fix" the ranger with 5 spells.

 

[CapnZapp]

I can "fix" the ranger with 5 spells.

Thne why didn't you say so instead of posting that huge list of character archetypes?


Obvious follow-up question in 3... 2... 1...

 

[Zaran]

I agree. They keep saying they want each subclass to portray a known archetype and the last UA ranger just simulated a poor melee shaman from 4e. I'd much rather they focus on reworking the existing ranger no matter the fact that it's printed and they don't want to change it because someone out there loves it as is.

 

[Minigiant]

Thne why didn't you say so instead of posting that huge list of character archetypes?


Obvious follow-up question in 3... 2... 1...

Bestial Wrath- Puts you and a beast in a rage
Vitalize Beast- Raises a beast's current maximum HP or revives a dying beast.
Arrow Trap- Imbue a hunting trap with a spell
Blade Thirst - Turns a slashing or piercing weapon into a magic weapon which senses foes
Walk the Horizon - Creates or finds a doorway to a random plane

I can think of others that could help the ranger but these 5 fix most of the complaints.