D&D 5E 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

[Mistwell]

Which is fair. No one need give more of a concern than they feel is necessary. Everyone has their own causes they consider worth fighting for. That's cool.

The problem comes when people who do not share the concern - who do not have the same cause - stand in the way, or argue that such things are unnecessary.

So people who disagree with you ("Argue that such things are unnecessary") are a "problem" in your book? IE dissent is labelled as a problem?

 

[MoutonRustique]

So, I'm curious - did my table rules have an effect? Did my "open table" change their minds, make them less nervous of attending a table populated by people they don't know?

And this curiousity has got me wondering - is the game's official stance on LGBTQ issues going to help attract new players in those (and other) communities? Does more need to be done, or is the current pace the correct one?

As with all divisive issues, there is an almost unreadable continuum where you gain more of "side A" then you loose of "side B" that tips into: you loose more of "side A" than you gain of "side B".

These questions are incredibly important, but also, very prone to divisiveness. They are also very regional (even if people like to pretend "it's [state year]! We should be beyond this!) some regions will have vastly different prevalent ideas on the subject. And you needn't go very far to find a radically different perspective (I'm talking less than an hour drive in many areas.)

Personally, I'm finding the current situation to be slightly less "inclusive" (as in, the amount of references to) than what I'd prefer. I'm not LGBT, nor do I actually know all that many that are. I don't really have any black friends either (that being said, my social circle isn't ginormous). Just so you know where I'm coming from.

I do appreciate when settings are described in an "adult" manner - i.e. no need to be blatant about it, but let us not shy away from it either; mention torture, no need to describe the details. Mention that X (male) is Y's (also male) boyfriend, but don't describe their lovemaking habits in a three page dissertation, etc.

The ideas of gender dis-association from biology is an interesting one to ponder (for me), it can also be very important in many situations (changelings leap to mind, asexual or poly-sexual based races also). It's inclusion where appropriate is important. It's inclusion to the point (and this point will be very subjective - hence the difficulties) where it "get's in the way" by feeling, "put in, to be put in" is not desirable to me. But, for my money, we are still a far cry from this point.

tl;dr - we're going in the right direction. Some people will be put off by it. It will be tricky to find the optimum "inclusion" threshold.

Side note : I am really digging the inclusion of different coloured people in the art (that just makes sense!)

 

[Jester David]

So people who disagree with you ("Argue that such things are unnecessary") are a "problem" in your book? IE dissent is labelled as a problem?

No. It causes a problem. A complication. A dilemma.

"People who disagree with me" is a pretty broad interpretation of this particular situation as well. That's a very universal statement being applied to a very specific discussion point. How I feel about people disagreeing with me on Topic A and people disagreeing with me on Topic B evoke very different emotions.

This is an issue since people who are uninvolved on an issue (and potentially uninformed) are unlikely to have a strong grasp if something necessary or not. They might not feel it necessary, and that's very true for them, but that's not a universal truth. Without causes raising awareness, these issues remain vague and people remain ignorant of the details.

 

[Kwalish Kid]

An unsurprising source wrote:

So people who disagree with you ("Argue that such things are unnecessary") are a "problem" in your book? IE dissent is labelled as a problem?

There is a long history of people who want to stand in the way of political rights trying to argue that other people and organizations should be neutral in their approach. So, yes, these people are a problem--not because they dissent, but because they stand in the way of equality.

 

[EthanSental]

transgender is sort of a bucket into which various other categories go, like CD/TV/TS and other subcategories like DQ/DK, Pre-op/Post-op/Non-op, as well as MTF, FTM, and Ambi go.

The above was copied from an earlier post....I'll be honest, I don't know what any of these acronyms and labels mean and that's coming from a person with 2 degrees, a close friend that is gay, etc. Will I take the time to look them up, nope. If I havne't run into a person who says "IM a DQ/DK in 45 years, chances are I won't. I forgot who it was i heard on TV but I have to agree, we are all caught up in putting people in categories or categorizing ourselves.

Can we not just play the freaking game the way we want to play it and not call the publishers when a certain group feels left out in the cold? Political correctness has ran rampart in the USA in the past 20 years and while some say it's a good thing, can we say that with all this correctness our society is gotten any better with all the idiotic mass shooting and underlying racial tension the news plays up...just like they did in the 70s? The gaming table gives us a chance at getting away from this crapfest of a world we generally live in and play with friends....enjoy it and play the game how you want to and have fun.

 

[Lanliss]

From the context, I believe MTF and FTM are male to female, and Female to male. All of those involving the "op" refer to the sex change operation (pre is before sex change, post is after, and guessing non is someone who does not plan to have an operation, but simply identifies as the other sex, though I may be wrong on the last.) And I think DK and DQ are drag queen/king? Though I have never heard of a drag king.

 

[AtomicPope]

DnD is a game of epic heroism. DnD doesn't stand for Diddling 'n Dice. There is no high heroism as you shout in the faces of parents and their children when they shop for groceries to push your political agenda. There will be no Affirmative Action to ensure you gain +1 Metaphysically Oppressed Bonus because you're a Post-Op Pansexual Eskimo. There will be no speech codes to penalize Demons and Devils for being Politically Incorrect. The losers who want to sit around and imaginary diddle with dice are completely and utterly fringe, and really need to invent their own game because DnD isn't for everyone.

These postmodern delusions of "equality" have no place in DnD either. There is no "equality" in DnD. FFS we have classes and levels. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence should be able to figure out that a 1st level character is NOT "equal" to a 5th level character. You want equality? Then YOU go fight the dragon! Take your 1st Level, low-Strength havin' butt to the cave and you fight the dragon. Your strength is not equal to mine. Your hit points are not equal to mine. The dragon will kill you because you're weak. All of that kumbaya bull crap needs to die in a fireball because it has no place in DnD.

My roommate and DM for years was a gay pedophile. He was obviously not allowed in any game store or near schools. Interestingly enough his homosexuality was never the focus for ANY of our games, not a single one. Meanwhile, pedophilia is being pushed by the Culture of Critique as a norm, with pedophiles calling the rest of humanity "monsters" in articles published by the MSM. The only thing worse than a pedophile is a Social Justice Warrior who makes every perversion their moral imperative. And that's precisely what this thread is about. It's about taking something that is a fringe element of any society and pushing it into the forefront of a game that isn't about social issues and soup kitchens.When you play DnD you find the threat and you kill it. Then you take all of their property and you're a hero. That's DnD!

 

[Gnarl45]

...huh? That... really doesn't have much to do with what I said. I'm fairly certain I didn't mention hair.

I only mentioned the hair to emphasis that not all gay guys are shaved metrosexuals. If you take a walk in Castro (San Francisco), you'll see some extremely manly looking dudes holding hands.

My point was that many gays don't walk around wearing rainbow colored t-shirts. Gay pride is only once a year. The rest of the year, you won’t even notice them. If 364 days per year you don’t notice gay guys and girls, why would you want them to be super obvious in your fantasy worlds?

I suggest you look up the word "wife."

My transsexual friends prefer when I address to them as a member of the sex they identify themselves to.

If your dictionary says that a wife has to be a genetic woman, it probably also says that marriage is between a man and a woman. I disagree.

That is extremely far removed from the topic.
A master artisan and his apprentice could easily be a man and a woman. Whether a community values professional relationships over romantic ones--which isn't at all what you actually said but I'll go with it--has literally nothing to do with whether any of the NPCs in that community are GLBT.

By love I meant romantic love, not professional. If I remember correctly, in ancient Greece, a master and his apprentice were often romantically involved and it was considered normal. It's an example of society where homosexuality isn’t a taboo.

I have no problem with a society that views homosexual love as the purist form of love. But if you’re going to include alternate social models, why not include polygamy or matriarchal societies? If I’m not mistaken, in the pacific islands, your family was the village because they had huge orgies and you never really knew who your dad was. Why not give swingers a validation of their lifestyle and have these kinds of societies in your D&D world?

There are many segragated or stygmatized people in the world. If WoTC were to make a stand for each and every one of them, your game world would be an amorphous mess that doesn’t look like a D&D world. I think 99% of the D&D players don’t give a crap and just want to kill orcs and dragons. Why turn a hobby into a political or religious debate?

 

[Lanliss]

DnD is a game of epic heroism. DnD doesn't stand for Diddling 'n Dice. There is no high heroism as you shout in the faces of parents and their children when they shop for groceries to push your political agenda. There will be no Affirmative Action to ensure you gain +1 Metaphysically Oppressed Bonus because you're a Post-Op Pansexual Eskimo. There will be no speech codes to penalize Demons and Devils for being Politically Incorrect. The losers who want to sit around and imaginary diddle with dice are completely and utterly fringe, and really need to invent their own game because DnD isn't for everyone.


These postmodern delusions of "equality" have no place in DnD either. There is no "equality" in DnD. FFS we have classes and levels. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence should be able to figure out that a 1st level character is NOT "equal" to a 5th level character. You want equality? Then YOU go fight the dragon! Take your 1st Level, low-Strength havin' butt to the cave and you fight the dragon. Your strength is not equal to mine. Your hit points are not equal to mine. The dragon will kill you because you're weak. All of that kumbaya bull crap needs to die in a fireball because it has no place in DnD.


My roommate and DM for years was a gay pedophile. He was obviously not allowed in any game store or near schools. Interestingly enough his homosexuality was never the focus for ANY of our games, not a single one. Meanwhile, pedophilia is being pushed by the Culture of Critique as a norm, with pedophiles calling the rest of humanity "monsters" in articles published by the MSM. The only thing worse than a pedophile is a Social Justice Warrior who makes every perversion their moral imperative. And that's precisely what this thread is about. It's about taking something that is a fringe element of any society and pushing it into the forefront of a game that isn't about social issues and soup kitchens.When you play DnD you find the threat and you kill it. Then you take all of their property and you're a hero. That's DnD!

Sex does occur in some games, and not just "losers" as you call them. one of the most popular dnd video podcasts is Critical Role, and I believe they brought up sex, and actually made a sex check in the first video, IIRC. Don't go around throwing insults without good reason. This is a meaningful subject to some, and it is their right to discuss it as they will, and come to a mutual natural end where they all feel they reached their goal.

 

[Lanliss]

By love I meant romantic love, not professional. If I remember correctly, in ancient Greece, a master and his apprentice were often romantically involved and it was considered normal. It's an example of society where homosexuality isn’t a taboo.

I believe the only issue here is that you meant a man having a romantic relationship with his MALE apprentice. It is not so obvious in the world of dnd the an apprentice will be male, so that is where I believe the confusion came from.