D&D 5E Persuade, Intimidate, and Deceive used vs. PCs

[GMforPowergamers]

As far as my objection goes, I would tell you that saying my character is "intimidated" is overstepping the role of the DM in my view and I'd appreciate it if you would not do that. I'd tell you I have no problem with you using the dice to inform your narration, but whether or not my character is deceived, intimidated, or persuaded is my decision.

why? would be my follow up. What actually happened that made you not play your character... I informed you that monster A made a check on a skill and what it was and that it successed (or that it beat your check) you still played your character, what did I take away...

as for you not describing adequately you can't ever (no one can) describe everything... have you ever gotten a bad feeling before something bad happened? I bet you have and you don't know what it was that did it. The human body picks up on ALOT more then just visual cues, and most descriptions end with visual. If I ask you quastions then I expect you to treat me like an adult and anse
r or at least talk to me out of game...

 

[GMforPowergamers]

If I understand you correctly, this enhances my point rather than detracts from it. He told you that your character was "entranced" which suggests one or two things (maybe both): One, your character's attention is captured by the vampire (which you should be deciding for yourself short of magical compulsion) and/or, two, your character just had a spell cast on her.

So we have an example of inadequate description and the DM determining how your character thinks and acts ("entranced"), followed by creepy behavior and a failure to take responsibility for the outcome. I don't think this happened because you couldn't ask questions. In fact, you might have taken an action like, "I try to determine if I'm under the effect of a magical spell..." or "I try to shake off the spell the vampire has over me."

dude... that guy totally took from your play book. In one of my games that couldn't happen..

 

[MostlyDm]

Iserith, I'll read more later, but... Partway through play session one and I've seen several cases of you answering questions. At least one question was couched as an action (in the way I said above, this was purely cosmetic, and changed nothing.) But another was just an outright question, that you answered. A reasonable question, too. So... You don't specifically oppose players asking questions, it seems like.

Anyway. Entertaining stuff. If you're curious about specifics I can provide them later.

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

I think it's simpler than that. It's merely a case of an untrustworthy (and creepy) DM.

Taking advantage players with deliberate misinformation is hardly an accomplishment. In fact, it's the exact opposite.

yes he was pervy and creepy but also hiding info. I hate hiding what you want. It's like "Hey here is this description, but don't you dare question me" is one of the quickest ways to rip me out of a game... if he didn't hide every skill and every spell and every power behind description it never would have played out that way...

 

[iserith]

why? would be my follow up. What actually happened that made you not play your character... I informed you that monster A made a check on a skill and what it was and that it successed (or that it beat your check) you still played your character, what did I take away...

When a DM says the character is "intimidated," he or she is saying how the character thinks and acts - intimidated. Describe to me what the monster does. Don't tell me that I'm "intimidated." I get to choose that for myself.

as for you not describing adequately you can't ever (no one can) describe everything... have you ever gotten a bad feeling before something bad happened? I bet you have and you don't know what it was that did it. The human body picks up on ALOT more then just visual cues, and most descriptions end with visual. If I ask you quastions then I expect you to treat me like an adult and anse
r or at least talk to me out of game...

I don't endeavor to describe "everything." I describe the environment, what's happening, and the basic scope of options - enough for the player to start describing what he or she wants to do. If more information is required to do something, the player can describe the character as trying to get that information.

dude... that guy totally took from your play book. In one of my games that couldn't happen..

Dude, that guy totally didn't for reasons I already described.

 

[iserith]

Iserith, I'll read more later, but... Partway through play session one and I've seen several cases of you answering questions. At least one question was couched as an action (in the way I said above, this was purely cosmetic, and changed nothing.) But another was just an outright question, that you answered. A reasonable question, too. So... You don't specifically oppose players asking questions, it seems like.

Anyway. Entertaining stuff. If you're curious about specifics I can provide them later.

I give players with whom I've never played a pass and I never played with those players prior to that game (except a one-shot with bawylie). But you'll see later on in the transcripts (if you get that far) that more than once I ask someone to rephrase. At the end of the day, the odd question here and there is fine. It's really the 20 Questions that goes on at many tables these days (actual play videos are rife with it) that I object to.

Thanks for taking the time to read the transcripts.

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

Dude, that guy totally didn't for reasons I already described.

the problem is that you are using arguments he used to use... he would phrase it differently but your whole "Don't ask questions just declair actions" mentality was his too. And he ALWAYs 'described the envoirment and what the npc did" You may not WANT to be like him, but I am yet to see a difference.

 

[iserith]

if he didn't hide every skill and every spell and every power behind description it never would have played out that way...

I don't recommend hiding mechanics myself. When they come into play, they are always in the open at my table.

Also, did it occur to you to try and break the spell somehow, perhaps by exerting your will? Or try to determine if you were indeed under a spell by way of a fictional action?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

When a DM says the character is "intimidated," he or she is saying how the character thinks and acts - intimidated. Describe to me what the monster does. Don't tell me that I'm "intimidated." I get to choose that for myself.

no he is describing the world around you and HOW INTIMADATING the enemy is... it is the same thing you do. I just use short hand that is directly teling the PC what is happening, you just describe and hope they get the gist...

I don't endeavor to describe "everything." I describe the environment, what's happening, and the basic scope of options - enough for the player to start describing what he or she wants to do. If more information is required to do something, the player can describe the character as trying to get that information.

what if I want more info that my character would have without taking an action?

Dude, that guy totally didn't for reasons I already described.

he did the same thing you did just because you are better at it doesn't mean it isn't the same

 

[iserith]

the problem is that you are using arguments he used to use... he would phrase it differently but your whole "Don't ask questions just declair actions" mentality was his too.

Same policy for different reasons though, clearly.

And he ALWAYs 'described the envoirment and what the npc did"

That's quite literally what the game says to do. It's on page 3 of the Basic Rules.

You may not WANT to be like him, but I am yet to see a difference.

The differences are obvious to me. I've described several of them already.