D&D 5E Refusing To Heal Party Members?

[Ralif Redhammer]

Sounds like the barbarian walked right into that one. Parties without healers/minimal healing really need to play smart and use strategy.

Everyone has basically decided on going for moar damage and the lack of healing came up multiple times tonight. I'll give them 1 hp to stop them dying but since the total party healing available is now around 12 hit points per day its not looking good. The Barbarian also wandered off by himself and got reduced to 0 hit points and left for dead.

 

[GameDoc]

Maybe we just don't have enough archetypes in myth, film, and literature to inspire people to play clerics.

Barbarian... Conan, Khal Drogo, Wolverine, Rollo
Bard... Allan A-Dale, Chaucer from "A Knight's Tale", the Pied Piper
Fighter... close your eyes, randomly flip through Bullfinch's mythology and put your finger down, odds are you're pointing at a fighter.
Monk... take your pick of any Bruce Lee, Jet Li, or Jackie Chan film, or any Jedi character
Paladin... The Knights of Camelot, the Peers of Charlemagne, Captain America, even Batman
Ranger... Orion, Robin Hood, Aragorn, Nathaniel Bumpo, Jon Snow
Rogue... Loki, Aladin, Jack Sparrow, Bilbo Baggins, Han Solo
Wizard/Warlock/Sorcerer... Merlin, Prospero, Gandalf, John Constsntine, Dr. Strange, nearly every character in Harry Potter

Cleric... cleric... um, Friar Tuck?

Even in Marvel Comics, the humble healer is who Thor was forced to live as as punishment for his pride.

The cleric was initially meant to evoke the knights of the various Crusades, warrior-monks like the Templars and Hospitalers. When the paladin was introduced it kind of stole the cleric's schtick.

In recent memory, I can only think of two cleric-like figures. David Thewlis as the Hospitaler in "Kingdom of Heaven" and Thoros of Myr from Game of Thrones. I think it's hard for modern humans to see the word priest and not think of present day priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, or Tibetan monks.

 

[Lanliss]

Maybe we just don't have enough archetypes in myth, film, and literature to inspire people to play clerics.

Barbarian... Conan, Khal Drogo, Wolverine, Rollo
Bard... Allan A-Dale, Chaucer from "A Knight's Tale", the Pied Piper
Fighter... close your eyes, randomly flip through Bullfinch's mythology and put your finger down, odds are you're pointing at a fighter.
Monk... take your pick of any Bruce Lee, Jet Li, or Jackie Chan film, or any Jedi character
Paladin... The Knights of Camelot, the Peers of Charlemagne, Captain America, even Batman
Ranger... Orion, Robin Hood, Aragorn, Nathaniel Bumpo, Jon Snow
Rogue... Loki, Aladin, Jack Sparrow, Bilbo Baggins, Han Solo
Wizard/Warlock/Sorcerer... Merlin, Prospero, Gandalf, John Constsntine, Dr. Strange, nearly every character in Harry Potter

Cleric... cleric... um, Friar Tuck?

Even in Marvel Comics, the humble healer is who Thor was forced to live as as punishment for his pride.

The cleric was initially meant to evoke the knights of the various Crusades, warrior-monks like the Templars and Hospitalers. When the paladin was introduced it kind of stole the cleric's schtick.

In recent memory, I can only think of two cleric-like figures. David Thewlis as the Hospitaler in "Kingdom of Heaven" and Thoros of Myr from Game of Thrones. I think it's hard for modern humans to see the word priest and not think of present day priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, or Tibetan monks.

I was thinking the other day on superhero rpg classes, and arrived at Batman being a shadow monk. It fits almost perfectly.

 

[Jacob Marley]

There is a world of difference between I don't have healing. And I won't use the healing I have...

As a player, I have the right to determine how to best utilize my character's abilities; up to, and including, who, when, and how I cure hit point damage. While I will happily entertain other player's suggestions, the final decision is mine to make. That being said, I also believe that it is best to be upfront with the rest of the table about why I am making this decision.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

As a player, I have the right to determine how to best utilize my character's abilities; up to, and including, who, when, and how I cure hit point damage. While I will happily entertain other player's suggestions, the final decision is mine to make. That being said, I also believe that it is best to be upfront with the rest of the table about why I am making this decision.

That's fine as long as you realize when you refuse to use your ability to help the party you open the door for others to do the same like my example

 

[Lanefan]

the 1e/2e cleric was a god in battle by level 12.

Our games tend not to get quite that high...

Their THAC0 wasn't that great but touch attacks with spells more or less ignored everything but dex and pluses from magic items. A dragon was frequently AC 10 vs. spells.

Clerics could do the 2 hit combo. Harm for ALL your hp -1d4, then follow up with a Mace +3. Even without a mace +3, a weapon like 1d6, +1 or even 0 from strength would typically kill anything. Clerics typically had a similar AC to fighters, as there wasn't much reason not to. Clerics only needed high Wisdom. so you have 5 dump stat options, meaning you could really tank out if you wanted to. The 1e spells like Slay Living at 9th and Destruction at 14th level were more potent and creatures in general had fewer hp at high levels.

This all assumes that one can get such spells away, which in melee isn't at all guaranteed; and if a spell gets interrupted we have the risk of magic surges in our games. (and in my current case it's a good thing Clerics have 5 dump stats as I only rolled one decent one - Wis started at 16 (or 17?), nothing else higher than 12, and two (or three?) 9's...so while I play him as a tank he's mostly been a rather weak, clumsy tank)

Even the reverse of abjure, Compel at 7th level was pretty potent if used right for combat. a 7th level cleric had a 45% chance or so of summoning an Agathinon from the upper planes, which had the power to turn into an ancient or great wyrm brass, silver, or gold dragon, use their breath weapon and possibly fly your party to safety.

Hmmm...I'm not sure we have this spell in our game. If it came from 1e's UA that might be why, we didn't adopt a lot of those. If it came from 2e we may never have seen it.

And to wave in the general direction of the main topic: none of those are healing spells...

So the crunch time for a cleric would be levels 1-6, and they might look sad at 5th and 6th levels because Fireball really did rock it, and being stuck with a 1d6-d8 +1 damage attack at +2 to hit... yeah, that blows. You probably had an AC of about 3 as well because party armor budget goes to paladins and fighters.

We divide treasure equally by value (no "party budget") and characters claim - or if they're lucky in town in finding what they need, buy - what they want and-or can afford. Claim disputes are settled first by role-play then by roll-off.

Lanefan

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I think you make a good point there. Bishop Odo comes to mind alongside Friar Tuck. Good call on Thewlis’ character and Thoros of Myr. But those are a spare handful compared to what all the other classes have.

The word is that the cleric class was originally inspired by Peter Cushing as Van Helsing. As cool as that is, it definitely plays down the healer role. The arguments could be made for Lucy Pevensie from Narnia. And perhaps Baymax is a Warforged cleric?

But all of these examples lack the impact of a Conan, or Merlin, or Grey Mouser.

Maybe we just don't have enough archetypes in myth, film, and literature to inspire people to play clerics.

In recent memory, I can only think of two cleric-like figures. David Thewlis as the Hospitaler in "Kingdom of Heaven" and Thoros of Myr from Game of Thrones. I think it's hard for modern humans to see the word priest and not think of present day priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, or Tibetan monks.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I think you make a good point there. Bishop Odo comes to mind alongside Friar Tuck. Good call on Thewlis’ character and Thoros of Myr. But those are a spare handful compared to what all the other classes have.

The word is that the cleric class was originally inspired by Peter Cushing as Van Helsing. As cool as that is, it definitely plays down the healer role. The arguments could be made for Lucy Pevensie from Narnia. And perhaps Baymax is a Warforged cleric?

But all of these examples lack the impact of a Conan, or Merlin, or Grey Mouser.

Um, what about every Saint? Saint George comes to mind. Kilt him a dragon.

 

[Shasarak]

I never said that I didn't support them. I would cast support spells like bless, etc all of the time. I simply asked for a small tithe for the church for a healing spell. An amount that works out to less than 1% of the money they would take in on an adventure and 1/10th of what a player would happily erase from their sheet to have their character perform some hand-waved drinking and debauchery.

I wonder what would happen if the party decides that they want to replace your character with another Cleric from a church that they worship rather then paying a heretic a tithe?

 

[Zardnaar]

One could make the argument Jesus is a high level cleric in D&D terms. Hell more than a few D&D spells/abilities have a biblical origin (walk on water, sticks to snakes, lay on hand, flamestrike, raise dead/resurrection etc).

I did heal the players last night but ran out very very fast compounded by certain players being outright moronic because it is "fun and "roleplaying". LG type being played as CN and more like chaotic stupid.