Christian Persecution vs Persecuted Christians

[Bedrockgames]

If you are going to compare states, it probably makes more sense to compare ISIS to states like Saudi Arabia and Syria. There are many similarities with S.A. that people should probably take note of and question why we are allies with them. I think it makes it very hard for us to act like any kind of moral voice in the region when folks can just point to our support of a Wahabist regime that beheads people for violating religious law.

 

[Morrus]

While the characteristics of a state include elements like being able to tax, declare war, sign treaties etc, in practical terms it pretty much means being recognised as such by other states. You can shout your qualifications to the wind, but if the international community doesn't recognise you, it doesn't recognise you.

 

[Maxperson]

It is a long thread. I am not going to be able to sift through that. I am just curious what the general thrust of each side is here. Are people saying that Obama killing Americans who are participating in Jihad in the middle east is equivalent to ISIS murdering people for people homosexual, getting drunk or being an apostate?

People here declared that Obama droning American citizens is both moral and justified due to laws and modern societal values. I pointed out that by that criteria, ISIS being a modern society that passes laws, is engaging in justified and moral killing by beheading Americans. They didn't like that very much, so they're trying very hard to show that ISIS isn't a state.

 

[Maxperson]

While the characteristics of a state include elements like being able to tax, declare war, sign treaties etc, in practical terms it pretty much means being recognised as such by other states. You can shout your qualifications to the wind, but if the international community doesn't recognise you, it doesn't recognise you.

Their recognition doesn't remove your statehood, though. It just means that there are no overt diplomatic actions going on with them. A state doesn't NEED ratification by others. It will still go on being a solo state without them.

 

[Bedrockgames]

People here declared that Obama droning American citizens is both moral and justified due to laws and modern societal values. I pointed out that by that criteria, ISIS being a modern society that passes laws, is engaging in justified and moral killing by beheading Americans. They didn't like that very much, so they're trying very hard to show that ISIS isn't a state.

Well, I don't think Obama drone striking US citizens is anywhere near the ballpark of what ISIS is doing. I wouldn't say I am 100% comfortable with drones or their use on american citizens.

But whether or not ISIS is a state, really doesn't matter to me. I think the actions themselves need to be judged. I mean plenty of states have done horrific things. What ISIS is doing to people within the area it controls is bad; state or no. It is also bad when the same things occur in places like Saudi Arabia.

 

[Morrus]

Their recognition doesn't remove your statehood, though. It just means that there are no overt diplomatic actions going on with them. A state doesn't NEED ratification by others. It will still go on being a solo state without them.

Statehood doesn't exist. Is EN World a state? I can appoint you as an ambassador. I can charge dues.

It's a fiction. The only statehood is one which is recognised. Otherwise it's a random word in the wind. It's an agreed fiction humans use; it doesn't actually exist.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Statehood doesn't exist. Is EN World a state? I can appoint you as an ambassador. I can charge dues.

It's a fiction. The only statehood is one which is recognised. Otherwise it's a random word in the wind. It's an agreed fiction humans use; it doesn't actually exist.

No one would ever take EN World serious after that.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Well, I don't think Obama drone striking US citizens is anywhere near the ballpark of what ISIS is doing.

Of course it isn't, but it's Obama, so it is to Max and people with his political leanings. People get upset that the military is using drones to take out U.S. citizens who are fighting against the U.S. and killing U.S. citizens (military personnel), yet they have no problem with police killing far more U.S. citizens. In the end there is no real difference between a gun, a rifle, or a drone fired missile. The end result is that someone dies.

 

[Maxperson]

Well, I don't think Obama drone striking US citizens is anywhere near the ballpark of what ISIS is doing. I wouldn't say I am 100% comfortable with drones or their use on american citizens.

But whether or not ISIS is a state, really doesn't matter to me. I think the actions themselves need to be judged. I mean plenty of states have done horrific things. What ISIS is doing to people within the area it controls is bad; state or no. It is also bad when the same things occur in places like Saudi Arabia.

I agree. My issue was with declaring Obama's murder of an American via drone justified because it was "legal". However, as was noted, it wasn't even done "legally". It was done via a memo, without any kind of court order.

 

[Maxperson]

Statehood doesn't exist. Is EN World a state? I can appoint you as an ambassador. I can charge dues.

It's a fiction. The only statehood is one which is recognised. Otherwise it's a random word in the wind. It's an agreed fiction humans use; it doesn't actually exist.

Statehood is just another way of saying country. Nothing more.