D&D 5E is stealth an action?

[Ovinomancer]

yes it is. It allows for much more freedom as to when you can roll to hide.

Sure, more freedom, and more arguments.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

What if that someone is invisible and sitting on a stone bench in the corner quietly reading a letter laying on the table in front of them? They are not making any attempt to hide, they are sitting right in the open and just happen to be naturally invisible. But someone else in the room would have to extremely attentive to notice the faint sounds that indicate that someone is sitting there.

This is definitely a corner case that the rules don't cover well. But a strict reading of the rules, there would be "some signs" that the person was there. Maybe the wind would be blocked and therefore trees or plants wouldn't blow in the breeze nearby them. Maybe it's a void in the dust on the bench. Maybe they can't stay perfectly still and when they shift slightly in their seat it makes noise either from their clothes rustling or their weapons or equipment banging into each other. A Hide check is an attempt to stay quiet and unseen, so it is an attempt to stand in a spot that leaves the smallest trace of you while moving as little as possible and possibly holding on to your scabbard so it doesn't bang against your leg, and so on.

The beauty of this is, exactly as Mike Mearls has stated, that 5e was designed assuming a DM who can look at the rules, understand the spirit of them and rule on the corner cases that aren't well covered by the rules. How strict you want to be with that is up to you. I've definitely allowed invisible creatures to stand perfectly still and (provided they were invisible before the PCs entered the room and the PCs didn't know they were there) not given the PCs a chance to notice them. I've forced invisible creatures to make hide checks if they move even an inch, however. I won't let creatures do that in combat, though. They are breathing heavy, some people are swinging weapons around and so on. If an invisible creature "stands still", everyone still knows where they are unless they spend an action making a hide check.

It is completely absurd to assume that anyone and anything not taking the hide action is automatically detected by everyone else. Most of the time they will be but not always. How do you set the DC to detect them? Use the guidelines in the rules to figure out if it's a easy, normal or hard task depending on the environment and the kind of clues that exist.

But for people, we already have a rule covering how hard it is to detect them. It's a Stealth check vs the Passive Perception of everyone around them. Sure, you can certainly set a DC and just say "That guy is standing in the darkness, a little difficult to make out but he isn't really hiding. Anyone with 10 Passive Perception or higher spots him." Essentially, you are just using the rules for spotting an hidden object. But the point of the stealth rules is to use them to determine if someone is noticed or not? Why invent another tool for the same thing? I've certainly given people a "free" Hide check when I felt they were being stealthy when someone first saw them...but that's out of combat when the actions you take don't matter.

The default assumption is that when you are "in combat", people are constantly spinning around, swinging weapons, looking for openings, keeping their ears open. A new enemy could appear at any time in any location so you pay closer attention. The adrenaline kicks in and makes you better at noticing subtle details. Which is why I tend to treat stealth in and out of combat a little differently.

The problem is that the case of the OP was a kind of...in between period between combat and non-combat. The enemy had left the room, they weren't specifically "in combat", but combat was going on nearby. So, the player wanted to be quiet while following them. By the rules that means taking the Hide action then moving after the guy while staying out of sight the whole time so the enemy didn't spot him as soon as he entered the new room.

It really depends on the goal the PC was after. If he wanted to just "try to be quiet" while entering the next room...it might be argued that isn't quite the same as Hiding. Maybe making a Stealth check with disadvantage might be a decent compromise. But in this case, I would probably rule that given the PC has no cover or anything once he has entered the next room and he wasn't truly "Hiding" that anyone who happened to be looking that way saw him immediately but that anyone who was "distracted" might not see him similarly to the way the Hiding rules already work. But, other than the disadvantage, that is giving them ALL the benefits of the Hide action without having to take the Hide action. Which immediately raises my "powergaming" alarm. When an option looks too good to be true, it probably shouldn't be allowed. Maybe applying a speed penalty, like half speed would work...but half speed when allowing them to Dash every round is...exactly the same as taking an action and moving full speed. So, we might as well just use the rules as written.

 

[Celtavian]

Sure, more freedom, and more arguments.

Unless you have players that like to add to the creative thinking coming up with interesting explanations as to how they're hiding. In this edition I like to get the players into describing what they're doing. I must admit the rules light nature of the game puts them in a more creative mode. Less time looking in rule books, more time making decisions that seem appropriate off the cuff. Keeps everyone immersed when we don't have to break open the rulebook for every action.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Sure, more freedom, and more arguments.

Especially if you have players that like to add to the 'creative thinking' coming up with interesting explanations as to how they're hiding. In 5e, describing an action is the player's most powerful tool short of expending resources like spell slots. The DM has the option of deciding your action is impossible or just succeeds, or he can set you a DC you can easily match (or not), the better he likes the description of your action, the more likely you are to get the auto success or the easy DC, but, if you don't get what you want, you /could/ always argue the point. The rules aren't there to settle those arguments, the DM is, and it's not the funnest part of the job...

I must admit the rules light nature of the game puts them in a more creative mode.

No class/level based game with long lists of spells is ever going to be rules lite - but, you can strip 5e down to that basic d20 mechanic and player-describes-action/DM-describes-result dynamic as long as you steer clear of spells and other class abilities (so mainly in the exploration & social pillars) for much the same effect. It becomes less about gaming the system and more about gaming the DM.

Less time looking in rule books, more time making decisions that seem appropriate off the cuff.

Rulings not rules, all the way.

Keeps everyone immersed when we don't have to break open the rulebook for every action.

Could also be achieved with rules that are clear and intuitive, of course...

...which makes me wonder why they bothered with such baroque rules for stealth. Surely, like any other task, that ball could have been left in the DMs court?
Trying to niche-protect the Rogue, perhaps?

 

[Flamestrike]

What if that someone is invisible and sitting on a stone bench in the corner quietly reading a letter laying on the table in front of them? They are not making any attempt to hide

Yes they are. They are both invisible and being quiet.

That sounds like theyre attempting to hide to me (mechanically speaking). They get a stealth check opposed by the passive persception of peeps entering the room. They roll higher and theyre hidden. They roll poorly and something gives them away (they turn the page of the letter at the wrong time, someone hears the rustling of thier robes, a stifled cough, or the creak of leather from where they sit etc).

Its no different from a creature in total darkness who is quietly walking towards an exit. Theyre using 'stealth'.

they are sitting right in the open and just happen to be naturally invisible. But someone else in the room would have to extremely attentive to notice the faint sounds that indicate that someone is sitting there.

Its not just sounds they could be making. Smell, or other visual clues (footprints in the carpet, unsual swirling of wind, they pick up something like parchment or a pen etc).

Most of the time they will be but not always. How do you set the DC to detect them?

Stealth vs passive perception. Its right in the rulebook for how one becomes hidden from someone else.

 

[BoldItalic]

Yes they are. They are both invisible and being quiet.
Stealth vs passive perception. Its right in the rulebook for how one becomes hidden from someone else.

Agree with that.

But just thinking around, what if a PC goes into a room and announces, rather implausibly, "I search for invisible people quietly reading newspapers." Would that be an Investigation roll vs a DC? It's almost the same physical situation, but a completely different roll. It seems to depend on the intentions of the invisible creature (is he trying to be hidden) rather than his physical actions (or inactions, if he is just keeping still).

 

[spectacle]

Agree with that.

But just thinking around, what if a PC goes into a room and announces, rather implausibly, "I search for invisible people quietly reading newspapers." Would that be an Investigation roll vs a DC? It's almost the same physical situation, but a completely different roll. It seems to depend on the intentions of the invisible creature (is he trying to be hidden) rather than his physical actions (or inactions, if he is just keeping still).

I'd ask the player how he searches. If he looks around trying to notice small signs of someone being there, sounds, smells etc, I'd call it a hard Perception task. If he goes around the room poking his hands where invisible people may be it's an easy Investigation task. If the newspaper is visible in the room and he focuses his search there I'd change it to a normal Perception task and automatic success for a physical search

 

[Rya.Reisender]

last session, we had an encounter and the monster left the hall to another room.
I tried stealting there and the DM said that attempting stealth is an action, otherwise it negates the rouge bonus action benefit.
I claimed that hiding is an action, but moving stealthy just slows the pace.
I know that DM has the final word, but I still want to know how is it by the rules.

Depends on if you were inside combat or not.

Outside combat, I never worry about actions or whatever. I ask the players what they want to do and then determine whether they succeed at it or not. So if you watched some monsters which didn't notice you yet enter another room and you want to follow it stealthily, then I'll just ask you to do a stealth roll and depending on the result decide whether you follow the monster without being noticed or if you are being noticed.

If you already started combat, I already rolled intiative and stuff. And then a monster on its turn runs into a different room. And then you want to become hidden (assuming you aren't hidden at the moment), then of course you need to use your action to attempt to hide. "Move stealthily" itself is not a valid combat at all, it's the automatic effect of moving while you are hidden. Of course if you started the combat hidden, you can just say you want to follow the monster stealthily. That wouldn't require an action, I'll assume you will move in such a way not to lose your hidden status in that case.