D&D 5E Berserker Barbarian Fix?

[S'mon]

What I'm hearing in response to my question/comment is essentially, "No, we haven't examined it from a perspective of the assumed 6-8 combat encounters*, because we disagree that those numbers work in actual play."

That's fine, but that's not how the game is officially balanced. It's the same issue with warlock, or champion vs. Battle Master, etc. Judging an element of the game based on not following the given guidelines (regardless of how easy, difficult, or desirable those guidelines are to follow) isn't accurately assessing intended balance.

The objection to Frenzy is that, based on the game as designed (6 to 8 combat encounters) it is weaker than the Totem Warrior options.

So that's the question. Assuming 6-8 encounters, is Frenzy balanced against, say Wolf Totem Spirit?

* The context of the 6-8 encounters guidelines is the combat encounters and XP section.

Page 84 DMG: "Assuming typical adventuring conditions and average luck, most adventuring parties can handle about six to eight medium or hard encounters in a day. If the adventure has more
easy encounters, the adventurers can get through more. If it has more deadly encounters they can handle fewer."

It does not say anything about official game balance requiring 6-8 encounters in a day.

 

[MindxKiller]

Did you calculate, that as polearm master you don't benefit from extra attacks from the GWM feat? Extra attack when you kill something? Which in those fights where you are fighting low level mobs and you don't frenzy may be more common than you think?

1d4+3+1d10+3+1d10+3 is an average of 22.5
2d6+4+2d6+4 is an average of 22 damage. And you hit better.

And with GWM your extra attacks do more damage and chances you will kill a creature is higher. Even when you count the rage bonus in, you are are only looking at a difference of 4 damage at the cost of your bonus action which you can't even use if you start raging.
The only problematic interaction may be getting -5 to hit +10 to damage on your off hand attack, but to be honest, I as a DM would disallow that before I would start buffing everything else.

Neither the incredibly common reaction attack from PM or the bonus attack from GWM were calculated, and you're welcome to house rule as you like at your table, but that's what it is, house ruling. My comments have always been directed at those who have said Berserker is fine as is, which is RAW, not house ruling.

 

[Mephista]

What I'm hearing in response to my question/comment is essentially, "No, we haven't examined it from a perspective of the assumed 6-8 combat encounters*, because we disagree that those numbers work in actual play."

* The context of the 6-8 encounters guidelines is the combat encounters and XP section.

Where does it say that the 6-8 encounters must be combat? The DMG makes it clear that encounters dont' have to be fights. Where does it say that the assumed 6-8 encounters per adventuring day are all combat encounters? I question the validity of this statement.

 

[Mirtek]

GWM for the power attack? Nothing kills dpr faster than reducing chance to hit, as a miss does 0 damage.

fortinately the effect can be easily calculated and the -5/+10 wins out in the vast majority if cases. Unless your to hit is below <=50%

 

[S'mon]

Where does it say that the 6-8 encounters must be combat? The DMG makes it clear that encounters dont' have to be fights. Where does it say that the assumed 6-8 encounters per adventuring day are all combat encounters? I question the validity of this statement.

All the DMG says is that 6-8 combat encounters will drain a typical party's resources until they have to rest. Obviously non-combat encounters mostly won't drain resources.

 

[Uchawi]

Make it a concentration check to maintain, just like certain spells. I never understood why the concentration mechanic was just limited to spells when it should be included for any related mechanic in the game, even consuming potions.

 

[Mephista]

All the DMG says is that 6-8 combat encounters will drain a typical party's resources until they have to rest. Obviously non-combat encounters mostly won't drain resources.

Give me a quote, or at least a page number. My DMG says 6 to 8 encounters, not 6 to 8 combat encounters. Encounters include dodging traps, stealthing, and more, as per page 81. Encounter tables include running into friendly creatures. At no point have I seen anywhere that suggests the assumed 6 to 8 encounters must all be combat. Frankly, its starting to sound like an assumption and misreading rather than truth.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Neither the incredibly common reaction attack from PM or the bonus attack from GWM were calculated, and you're welcome to house rule as you like at your table, but that's what it is, house ruling. My comments have always been directed at those who have said Berserker is fine as is, which is RAW, not house ruling.

No, I didn't calculate the reaction attack, because the person I answered wrote that he didnd't calculate it too.
You can't use the bonus attack from GWM and the bonus attack from Polearm master. As I already stated in the quoted post. If anyone profits from the bonus attack of GWM it is the bereserker when he does not rage. If the totme barb has 2 feats and the berserker none, you are down 4 strength which may make the calculation even better for the berserker. ther ratio of the active part goes down to -7/+8 if you use it and -2/-2 if you don't.
Also, if we go the one feat makes the other path obsolete route, I would advise taking tough for the berserker. You may find that the barbarian will profit much and it should easily offset the bear totem resistance.
I really admit, that at hogher levels you will see a bigger gap between those. But then the extra reaction attacks and mindless rage should close it well enough. And as mentioned above there are good options for feats.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

fortinately the effect can be easily calculated and the -5/+10 wins out in the vast majority if cases. Unless your to hit is below <=50%

It should win in many cases. But reliability is also useful. Especially when low level creatures have so low hp that +10 damage is often overkill. And you need to remember that with point buy it is -6/+9 compared with the one taking +2 str instead which makes a lot of calculations less favourable.

 

[S'mon]

Give me a quote, or at least a page number. My DMG says 6 to 8 encounters, not 6 to 8 combat encounters. Encounters include dodging traps, stealthing, and more, as per page 81. Encounter tables include running into friendly creatures. At no point have I seen anywhere that suggests the assumed 6 to 8 encounters must all be combat. Frankly, its starting to sound like an assumption and misreading rather than truth.

Page 84 DMG: "Assuming typical adventuring conditions and average luck, most adventuring parties can handle about six to eight medium or hard encounters in a day. If the adventure has more easy encounters, the adventurers can get through more. If it has more deadly encounters they can handle fewer."

This is the source of the 6-8 encounters idea. It's in the section on XP budgets for combat encounters!