D&D 5E Little rules changes that still trip you up

[UngeheuerLich]

you are probably better served with a point in dexterity usually. If he gets it right someday you probably can use two daggers or short swords for a while.

 

[KahlessNestor]

It doesn't have to be the PCs. NPCs can pull unexpected daggers as well, to attack PCs or other NPCs. I think it's fair that the DM, when determining surprise, should ask, "Is this a situation in which a reasonable adventurer (NOT the paranoid player) would expect an attack, or a danger?" If no, then I think it is reasonable to determine surprise by some other method than Stealth vs. Perception.

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[Hriston]

Just because you are aware of a person does not make them a threat.

This is true.

Unless you're paranoid.

No, that just makes you paranoid. It doesn't change the objective truth of whether they are a threat or not.

So them drawing the dagger doesn't mean you perceive the threat just because you see the person.

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A person who draws a dagger on you is a threat, whether you perceive them doing it or not. They always were.

 

[KahlessNestor]

This is true.



No, that just makes you paranoid. It doesn't change the objective truth of whether they are a threat or not.



A person who draws a dagger on you is a threat, whether you perceive them doing it or not. They always were.

Amd if you don't perceive them, then you're Surprised.

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[Hriston]

Amd if you don't perceive them, then you're Surprised.

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If you're having a conversation with someone then you perceive them.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

I rule the same way as Hriston. In the world of D&D, with deception and illusions around every second corner, everyone can be a threat. My players certainly are wary, even if I make them meet an old, seemingly unarmed man.

Plus, "surprise" doesn't add too much to the fun, so I rather have it only occur very rarely.

 

[KahlessNestor]

If you're having a conversation with someone then you perceive them.

But not necessarily as a threat.

Sigh. Are you being deliberately obtuse on this, or are we talking past each other somehow? I'm not sure how much clearer I can explain it...

Maybe some examples?

You have hust succeeded in bedding the princess and are comfortably ensconced beside the comely maiden in her luxurious bed. She leans over you and smiles, coming to kiss you, and pulls a dagger from beneath the pillow, plunging it at your chest. You are Surprised.

Or maybe she shifts into a hag. It doesn't matter. She is a threat you didn't perceive because this is unexpected behavior from a princess you just spent a passionate moment with! Tou are literally caught with your pants down.

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[ad_hoc]

I rule the same way as Hriston. In the world of D&D, with deception and illusions around every second corner, everyone can be a threat. My players certainly are wary, even if I make them meet an old, seemingly unarmed man.

Plus, "surprise" doesn't add too much to the fun, so I rather have it only occur very rarely.

By that reasoning you could say that no one can be surprised because they know a threat could come from anywhere at any time, so they are always alert to danger.

 

[waxtransient]

Since most repeatable saving throws take place at the end of one's turn, I assumed death saving throws occurred at the end of turn as well rather than the beginning (I also think that is how it was in 4e). This has been an unfortunate mistake on my part, as my PC's have rolled an inordinate amount of natural 20's on death saves, and as a result I have unknowingly robbed them of a lot of epic, "I jump to my feet with one hp and rejoin the fray!" turns.

Of course, in the months since I've been doing it correctly there have been no natural 20's on death saves.

 

[Hriston]

The bolded part is where you are factually incorrect per 5E rules.

You even quote the rule yourself! "A character or monster who doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter."

Notice that the rulebook doesn't say, "Any character or monster that doesn't notice something/someone as a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter." It seems that you, and others who share your interpretation, have inserted that word "as" into the rulebook, putting an emphasis on the character or monster's own determination of whether something is a threat or not, rather than the objective truth of whether something is a threat that a straightforward reading of the rule would suggest. That is why I say that it doesn't matter whether a creature is perceived as a threat. It is objectively a threat, or it is not.

What Plaguescarred thinks is a variant rule is actually RAW. In the usual D&D-type encounter, you see orcs and you believe that orcs are a threat and so you chaaaarge!...and that's where the combat and surprise rules come in.

The rulebook doesn't say, "Any character or monster that doesn't believe something/someone is a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter." The question is, "Are the orcs objectively a threat?", and if so, "Are they perceived at all?"

This diplomatic negotiation is not a combat encounter. The other diplomats are not 'threats' in combat terms, so seeing the diplomats is not 'noticing a threat'. Now, when one of them gets a homicidal twitch in his eye, draws a dagger and stabs you (or tries to)....that's a threat you can notice!

And to notice that kind of threat, Perception versus Stealth is inappropriate, because you've noticed his presence half an hour ago! But he wasn't a threat until he went for his dagger with murderous intent.

If someone has the potential to suddenly decide to murder you, then in my opinion, that person is a threat and always was.