D&D 5E Is the major thing that's disappointing about Sorcerers is the lack of sorcery point options?

[Yunru]

That isn't a problem, it's awesome! Why do you think it is a problem that Wild Sorcerers get a powerful ability as a foundation for their subclass? Looks like good design to me.

Then you're looking at it wrong. It's not a foundation. Foundations can't be completely optional.

And if a DM thinks ToC is too powerful to have multiple times a day, then the player gets neither ToC (again at least) or dramatic rolls on the Wild Surge table.

Such tieing of a core concept to a powerful, yet optional, ability is the worst form of class design possible. You either have Tides of Chaos refreshing with every spell, which most DMs would find too powerful, DMs refreshing ToC on a limited basis, leading to them being unable to refresh it because players are holding onto it for a better time, or a DM that just flat out doesn't refresh it, which is just unfun.

Wild magic Surge should of just read "[...] the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic table." and Tides of chaos refreshing should of been the feature with a 1 in 20 chance.

 

[The_Gneech]

Seems to me the main thing the sorcerer needs is more bloodlines. The storm sorcerer in SCAG is a decentish start, but it's too rigid; they should have made a straight-up Elemental Bloodline that allowed you to use sorcery points swap out damage types ("fireball" becomes "ball lightning," bay-bee!), an Oracle Bloodline that gave you access to cleric spells or some such, a Summoner Bloodline that gave you bonuses to conjure spells, and so on.

-The Gneech

 

[abirdcall]

Then you're looking at it wrong. It's not a foundation. Foundations can't be completely optional.

And if a DM thinks ToC is too powerful to have multiple times a day, then the player gets neither ToC (again at least) or dramatic rolls on the Wild Surge table.

Such tieing of a core concept to a powerful, yet optional, ability is the worst form of class design possible. You either have Tides of Chaos refreshing with every spell, which most DMs would find too powerful, DMs refreshing ToC on a limited basis, leading to them being unable to refresh it because players are holding onto it for a better time, or a DM that just flat out doesn't refresh it, which is just unfun.

Wild magic Surge should of just read "[...] the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic table." and Tides of chaos refreshing should of been the feature with a 1 in 20 chance.

If a DM doesn't let you use your main ability because they find it to be too powerful then they are a bad DM. Full stop. The DM can do this to any class. If the DM thinks Wild Magic Sorcerers are too powerful they should just not allow them in the first place.

Like I said, if I were playing in a game and the DM did this I would just leave.

It's not a problem with the Sorcerer, it's a problem with the group.

 

[akr71]

Because a single Stat character would immediately break balance for all other casters. Even Wizards at least need Con and Int.

Charisma is force of personality, literally the power of your presence and soul. It makes sense that those with the arcane in their veins would be casting based upon their Charisma

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by single Stat character. Surely, the sorcerer will still need a reasonable Dex and if there are no other arcane casters in the group, a reasonable Int too (for Arcana checks).

I don't wholly disagree with you, I just feel Charisma is over represented as a spell casting stat. There is no 'mana' or 'arcana' stat in D&D so it feels like they shoe-horned the Sorcerer into Cha for lack of anything better. I wouldn't be heart-broken if the Sorcerer disappeared altogether.

 

[Yunru]

If a DM doesn't let you use your main ability because they find it to be too powerful then they are a bad DM. Full stop. The DM can do this to any class. If the DM thinks Wild Magic Sorcerers are too powerful they should just not allow them in the first place.

Like I said, if I were playing in a game and the DM did this I would just leave.

It's not a problem with the Sorcerer, it's a problem with the group.

Tides of Chaos with every spell is not a main class ability. Tides of Chaos is a 1/day ability, which can optionally be recharged. It is designed to be 1/day.

 

[abirdcall]

Tides of Chaos with every spell is not a main class ability. Tides of Chaos is a 1/day ability, which can optionally be recharged. It is designed to be 1/day.

That just isn't true.

 

[Yunru]

That just isn't true.

Except it is. It's right there. "You can't use this ability again until you take a long rest. [...] the DM may have you [...]"

 

[Miladoon]

If a DM doesn't let you use your main ability because they find it to be too powerful then they are a bad DM. Full stop. The DM can do this to any class. If the DM thinks Wild Magic Sorcerers are too powerful they should just not allow them in the first place.

Like I said, if I were playing in a game and the DM did this I would just leave.

It's not a problem with the Sorcerer, it's a problem with the group.

As a DM I allow ToC refresh per RAW. The trade off for the power is that they do not have the utility of a wizard's spell book. To me that is the design focus and it works.

 

[CapnZapp]

The Wild Sorcerer is definitely a build whose core engine is DM optional.

Therefore you need to ask your DM before you roll up one.

Unless you get Tides of Chaos on each and every casting on a spell, don't bother with the sub-class. You will only get the disappointing results recounted above.

The problem with the design, then, is:

They failed to make it abundantly clear that the power of the subclass relies on you the DM being maximally generous.

 

[Croesus]

Sorcerers should have gotten (much) more support for exploring a theme.

A Desert Dervish. The Winter Witch. A Storm Sorcerer. The Dragon Incarnate.

All those are "sorcerery" concepts. None of them can really be created with the very tightly bound Sorcerer class. Not if you care about being effective, at any rate.

With one exception. Everything about the Sorcerer class works if your mama was seduced by a Red Dragon. Then you get cool stuff. Taking the spells you were going to take anyway (Fireball) will feel natural and you will be rewarded for it.

Every other concept? Compromises, compromises...

If there was any class to break the regular bounds, it should have been the Sorcerer. Cold-themed characters being able to cast Iceball once per short rest. Water-themed characters getting bonus damage per round when they cast Acid spells. And so on.

My group is experimenting with a couple new metamagic options, including Energy Substitution from 3.x. We're hoping this will allow us to address at least some of the points you've made.