D&D 5E After 2 years the 5E PHB remains one of the best selling books on Amazon

[Shasarak]

It's about imagining them as available to have sex with the male protagonists.

If growing up as a teenager taught me nothing it is that I did not need a Harlot table in the DMG to teach me about that. But on the other hand it was great for teaching me things like what the heck the word "Harlot" means anyway.

 

[Hussar]

I don't recall seeing that many pictures of 350 pound lardballs doing heroic things in the rpgs I've read... and yet when I roll into my FLGS, that's the predominant person I see.

Oh right. Because all gamers are fat, socially inept losers living in their parent's basement. Yeah, that's a stereotype that never gets old.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

There is no "secret" question, just something to get past that awkwardness of two strangers meeting while breaking their pattern and avoiding those autopilot answers.

How about, "What did you think about the Chiefs game last night?", "That T shirt looks cool, where did you get it from?", "What did you think about those comics you got last week?" Just use some of those Roleplaying skills and a little imagination.



I do not see any inherent problem asking someone if they are shopping for someone else. Personally I would not lead with it and on the other hand it is a very important thing to find out so you can give them the best advice.

In any case what you say is probably less important to how you say it. A smile is probably enough to get you over the line with most people that are not actively looking to be offended.

No one, anywhere, is actively looking to be offended. They're just aware of and sensitive to real world things you are able to ignore, probabaly because they don't impact your life directly.

Also, you aren't making more sales that way. I've worked plenty of retail. Ask the customer if you can help them find anything. The things you suggest are just obnoxious for most introverts, people who aren't in a great mood/have had a bad or long day, and many ppl who are entering an environment where they are often treated as an outsider. Heck, it annoys me even when I fit none of those descriptions.

The worst is when the clerk does it in a way that insists on more interaction than a quick yes or no thank you. I fracking hate that. If I want to have a conversation, I will respond with more than yes or no. Otherwise, leave me alone and let me shop.

 

[Hussar]

I'd point out that this isn't something that has gone away either.

I picked up Primeval Thule on the Kickstarter. Fantastic setting, very cool. Tons of flavour. Really loving it.

Except one thing. In my jungle based dinotopia lost world, every single group, save one small group of invaders, is caucasian. EVERY group. Buh? Funny thing is, I didn't even really notice it, until the last time this issue came up on En World and I took a second look at the various human and non-human groups in the setting and I realised it.

How is this inclusionary? Everyone's caucasian? Good grief. And it's not like this was some setting written years ago. This thing is only a couple of years old. Sheesh.

 

[Shasarak]

No one, anywhere, is actively looking to be offended. They're just aware of and sensitive to real world things you are able to ignore, probabaly because they don't impact your life directly.

Also, you aren't making more sales that way. I've worked plenty of retail. Ask the customer if you can help them find anything. The things you suggest are just obnoxious for most introverts, people who aren't in a great mood/have had a bad or long day, and many ppl who are entering an environment where they are often treated as an outsider. Heck, it annoys me even when I fit none of those descriptions.

The worst is when the clerk does it in a way that insists on more interaction than a quick yes or no thank you. I fracking hate that. If I want to have a conversation, I will respond with more than yes or no. Otherwise, leave me alone and let me shop.

You know they have Online shopping for the few people that can not deal with talking to others, right?

Otherwise I mostly enjoy watching "Shoppers" trying to find the one thing they want from the 5000 other SKUs that it is hidden in. =;0)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You know they have Online shopping for the few people that can not deal with talking to others, right?

Otherwise I mostly enjoy watching "Shoppers" trying to find the one thing they want from the 5000 other SKUs that it is hidden in. =;0)

Yeah, no. It's up to me whether I want to talk to the clerk. Making customers choose between a rude clerk that won't let them shop in peace, and shopping online, is rank BS. It's bad business, the worst kind of crappy customer service, and if someone under me any place I've been a manager did habitually, I'd fire them.

There are are many reasons to go into a store over shopping online, not all of which involve talking to people, much less being annoyed into an unwanted conversation with a stranger. But that last statement tells me that you aren't interested in providing any actual customer service, or just acting like a decent person.

 

[Mistwell]

No one, anywhere, is actively looking to be offended.

That is so not true.

I have known people actively looking to be offended. As in they are friends and told me in no uncertain terms it's something they enjoy doing and looked for it. I remember one of them got himself banned from Universal City Walk (the stores adjacent to Universal Studios) because he was looking to be offended by the rules posted on the wall and went out of his way to break every one of them in front of security guards so he would get ejected so he could tell others what happened and how offended he was.

I also encountered someone who was litigation crazy who was actively looking for things businesses did that offended him so he could sue them.

Life is full of every type of person, and some of them are in fact looking to be offended, have a chip on their shoulder, are upset at the universe and looking to make someone pay all the time for their misery. And one way they do that is to look for things to be offended about.

But, that type of person isn't that common. Fortunately.

Also, you aren't making more sales that way. I've worked plenty of retail. Ask the customer if you can help them find anything. The things you suggest are just obnoxious for most introverts, people who aren't in a great mood/have had a bad or long day, and many ppl who are entering an environment where they are often treated as an outsider. Heck, it annoys me even when I fit none of those descriptions.

The worst is when the clerk does it in a way that insists on more interaction than a quick yes or no thank you. I fracking hate that. If I want to have a conversation, I will respond with more than yes or no. Otherwise, leave me alone and let me shop.

Yeah I agree with everything you just said. If a clerk is trying to talk to me about personal things I want them to go away.

 

[Shasarak]

Yeah, no. It's up to me whether I want to talk to the clerk. Making customers choose between a rude clerk that won't let them shop in peace, and shopping online, is rank BS. It's bad business, the worst kind of crappy customer service, and if someone under me any place I've been a manager did habitually, I'd fire them.

There are are many reasons to go into a store over shopping online, not all of which involve talking to people, much less being annoyed into an unwanted conversation with a stranger. But that last statement tells me that you aren't interested in providing any actual customer service, or just acting like a decent person.

Sounds like that is your problem dude. I actually enjoy being helpful but there is always someone who thinks they know more then me or are just thieves that dont want you to watch them. If you think you are feeling indignant now just wait until you see someone caught shoplifting.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That is so not true.

I have known people actively looking to be offended. As in they are friends and told me in no uncertain terms it's something they enjoy doing and looked for it. I remember one of them got himself banned from Universal City Walk (the stores adjacent to Universal Studios) because he was looking to be offended by the rules posted on the wall and went out of his way to break every one of them in front of security guards so he would get ejected so he could tell others what happened and how offended he was.

I also encountered someone who was litigation crazy who was actively looking for things businesses did that offended him so he could sue them.

Life is full of every type of person, and some of them are in fact looking to be offended, have a chip on their shoulder, are upset at the universe and looking to make someone pay all the time for their misery. And one way they do that is to look for things to be offended about.

But, that type of person isn't that common. Fortunately.



Yeah I agree with everything you just said. If a clerk is trying to talk to me about personal things I want them to go away.

Ok, other than trolls and scam artists, then. Lol

and yeah, the need of some people to get all up in other people's space where they aren't welcome is really, really, obnoxious. I am the kind of person that will strike up a conversation with pretty much anyone, any time, but if someone isn't in the mood, it ain't my place to try and push that on them. That's why I don't even do that with retail workers, because I know sometimes ya just wish people would not try to tell you all about their boring day or whatever.

Thank the gods I don't have to deal with what women who work in retail or go to hobby stores as customers have to deal with, though. I'd hurt someone, first time they invaded my space or told me to smile, like I fracking owe them something.

But seriously, treating people who don't want to deal with your* need to have their attention as if they're shoplifters? That's just gross.

Ive fought my fair share of shoplifters. If you can't differentiate, look for different work.

*general you, not you, Mistwell.

 

[evileeyore]

But would you go back? Would you willingly patronize said establishment? Would you spend $150 there? Would you go there every week to hand out?

If it was a good bar with good drinks and the regulars weren't upset by my out-of-place presence, sure. Why not? It's still fulfilling the desire to have gone there in the first place, to get a drink.

If I actaully had some other goal, then the bar in question may or may not fulfill that.

The difference is, nobody accidentally stumbles into game stores.

I'll let you into a secret, unless they're wasted, most people don't accidentally stumble into bars either.

Then you are apt to have a major issue at this juncture, as by your statement you probably lack full understanding of what is driving this discussion.

No, I understand it. I simply don't agree with the attitude. As I said earlier, be constuctive. Don't like the lack of gender space, make a charsheet that includes this. Don't like the lack of representation in a game, make a game with that representation.

And I don't even mean make a new system, etc, etc. I also mean run games with that representation. Host games at your FLGS. Be a proactive and constructive member of the community instead of kvetching on the internet that you don't already have everything you want.

Quite frankly, if that's the case, you may well lack the perspective to understand the issues here.

I have the perspective. However, being that I'm the "get out there and take what I want" sort, when I want into a group, I join the group.

Growing up I was always the outsider, always the new kid (also always small, skinny, and overly smart). I went to 13 different schools in 12 years. And yet, because I didn't allow 'discomfort' to bar me, I always made friends. I always forced my way into things if that's what I wanted.

If I hadn't... I'd have never had friends. Never been on sports teams, never been in clubs, never dated, etc.


Granted, I didn't have an internet to gripe on. Had the intrawebs been around back then, I may have ended up not getting involved and just whining about it online.

Please allow me to explain how most of the stated demographic would likely feel - decidedly uncomfortable. Humans, speaking generally, are a highly tribal species. We have pretty strong notions of "in-group" and "out-group", or Them and Us. And we act accordingly. We tend to avoid places that are filled with Them, and not with Us. When put in such situations, humans typically end up with some level of anxiety - and I mean that in a rather clinical sense, including the raised blood pressure and increased levels of adrenaline and other hormones related to stress in the bloodstream, and so on.

Sounds emotionally unhealthy. You all should work on that.

This is entirely natural thing, and not the result of a conscious, rational process.

Oh, I agree. It's not rational at all.

It is how most of us are built, an aspect of human nature that we must accept and work with. In order to understand the conversation, you must accept that this happens.

I know it happens. However then patting them on the head and telling them it's okay, there's nothing they can do to become whole and everyone else should change to suit their emotional needs doesn't fix anything.

Now, do things sometimes need to be changed? Sure. Is the more inclusive nature of 5e a step in the right direction? Probably. Is it why 5e is the dominant force in the market and still the best seller on Amazon?

Nope.

Maybe you, personally, do not respond to such matters, but the rest of the population struggles with this every day.

I do respond. I did sometimes feel being on the outside that it just was not worth the effort to force my way in.

Did I bother others about it? Nope. I just moved on down the street the next bar that may have be more accommodating.

The response, "Well, everyone else should be just like me - 100% rational and not caring at all that they are surrounded by Them," is about the same as the response, "Well, they should just suddenly have olfactory senses that are 1000x stronger." It runs contrary to their nature, and they can't just stop being that way. It is, frankly, not workable, a non-starter.

Because mental health is stagnant and unchanging and no one can ever learn to be a better person. Also strawmen stand up well in all situations.

Oh right. Because all gamers are fat, socially inept losers living in their parent's basement. Yeah, that's a stereotype that never gets old.

If you had stopped at fat, you'd be describing me to a T.

I don't know if any of the tubbos in my FLGS playing Magic, boardgames, or D&D are losers or live in basements*... but based on the smell**, some of them certainly are socially inept.


* I live in Florida, so very unlikely.
** Heavy odor of B.O and Ax Body Spray.

I have known people actively looking to be offended. As in they are friends and told me in no uncertain terms it's something they enjoy doing and looked for it.

And they're still your friends?!?!?!