D&D 5E Do DM's feel that Sharpshooter & Great Weapon Master overpowered?

[Psikerlord#]

Meh.....People, especially groups of people, often come to conclusions without using the scientific method to justify their position. Mob mentality takes over and all kinds of nonsensical positions get taken. In the end, such "experience" is merely anecdotal evidence, and of little merit without any mathematical backing.

On the contrary, white room maths involving lots of averaging is often meaningless in play at the table, where your actual rolls matter, as opposed to some theoretical expected median/average/bell curve result. If people around the table arent enjoying the -5/+10 because it feels like it's dominating - that's all that matters.

 

[Ovinomancer]

People drastically simplify the math behind these feats. They look at DPR and they look at how much damage on average the feat allows versus the +1/+1 of a strength bonus, and they fail to consider aspects like overkill - wasted damage beyond what was needed to kill a monster.

If you try sitting down and looking at how these feats actually change the results of a combat, you'll find they are not as amazeballs as people believe. Do this exercise. Build two melee combatants.

#1: I took +2 strength rather than GWM. I hit on a 5 and crit on a 20. I do 4d6 + 6 on a crit and 2d6 + 6 on a hit (reroll 1 and 2 once each on the damage dice from GWF)
#2: I took GWM rather than +2 strength and am using it. I hit on an 11 and crit on a 20. I do 4d6+15 on a crit and 2d6+15 on a hit (rerolling 1 and 2 once each on the damage dice).

Have fighter 1 and fighter 2 both use the same attack and damage dice rolls when then hit (#1 may hit some times when #2 misses). They're trying to hack their way through 80 hp foes. Give them each 100 attacks. See how many targets each cuts through. If you build an excel spreadsheet and have it perform this anaylysis over and over to simulate hundreds of thousands of attacks and play a bit with the effective AC of the enemy, the hp total of the enemy, etc... you'll come to realize that the benefit of this feat over a +1 to hit and damage is not as great as people think.

You're ignoring that GWM has built in overkill protection with the cleave ability. Negates this problem for GWM. Still exists for SS, but SS has its own set of issues.

 

[Plaguescarred]

You're ignoring that GWM has built in overkill protection with the cleave ability. Negates this problem for GWM.

It's not a problem as long as you can reach another target. If you no longer have enought reach or movement to attack another target, you won't have anyone to attack as a bonus action.

 

[Arial Black]

It's not a problem as long as you can reach another target. If you no longer have enought reach or movement to attack another target, you won't have anyone to attack as a bonus action.

Or if you already used your bonus action, like Rage for instance.

This is exactly what happened the first two times my Bar/War qualified for that bonus attack: "Hooray, I took him out! Now I get a bonus attack! Boo, I already used my bonus action to start raging!"

 

[Ovinomancer]

It's not a problem as long as you can reach another target. If you no longer have enought reach or movement to attack another target, you won't have anyone to attack as a bonus action.

At which point overkill is moot as well. "I killed the last guy too much!"

 

[Ovinomancer]

Or if you already used your bonus action, like Rage for instance.

This is exactly what happened the first two times my Bar/War qualified for that bonus attack: "Hooray, I took him out! Now I get a bonus attack! Boo, I already used my bonus action to start raging!"

Did you generate the attack because the extra damage killed the target, or did you overkill? Cause we're not talking about competition for bonus actions - that exists outside of just GWM.

 

[Plaguescarred]

At which point overkill is moot as well. "I killed the last guy too much!"

Untransferrable damage are always lost but that doesn't make overkill a moot point if said point is that GWM's big damage boost is not as good as it seems in practice when it frequently end up dealing more damage than necessary. Point still stand.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Untransferrable damage are always lost but that doesn't make overkill a moot point if said point is that GWM's big damage boost is not as good as it seems in practice when it frequently end up dealing more damage than necessary. Point still stand.

Only stands if the overkill is => 10 AND (you have no other targets within your movement OR have used your bonus action already). It's an increasingly small exception.

 

[kalil]

Hiya!

TL;DR ...so maybe someone has already brought this up...

I voted "Overpowered". But I would have put an * after that. By itself, taken as-is, with everything else in the game being core only...no, not OP.

However, from what I've read and those I've talked to on the 'net, a campaign that is going to allow GWM/Sharpshooter is almost always also going to allow Multiclassing, point-guy, other Feats, Spells, Classes, Races and whatnot from other sources, etc. THIS is when GWM/SS becomes absolutely OP (moreso when players get together to create synergistic characters together). "I'm a human fighter with a 15 STR and GWM" isn't OP. "I'm a fighter/rogue winged tiefling with DEX 20 and Sharpshooter" is OP.

"I am a first level varoant human barbarian with GWM" is most definitely OP.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Only stands if the overkill is => 10 AND (you have no other targets within your movement OR have used your bonus action already). It's an increasingly small exception.

Small exceptions yet still possible, which doesn't makes this problem negated like you claim.