5e Class: Spelldancer

[StarvingGamer]

That just sounds like an awkwardly reskinned Concentration check. It is hamfisted to give something special snowflake status when it is seamlessly served by a preexisting mechanic that already does this job for a slew of spells and class abilities.

Sure, but it's not concentration which in some ways is a key distinction since you can only concentrate on one thing at a time. Flagging it as such would require different special snowflake status stating that oh you can concentrate on two things but only with this effect as one of the things and also you roll 2 concentration checks each time you get hit. Also if you make it concentration you're going to drop it constantly since Con is at best, the 3rd stat priority and also you don't get proficiency.

So what's cleaner? Describing it as a concentration DC using your performance skill? Or describing it as a concentration check but also you can have 2 concentrations but only if this is one of them also if you get hit you have to roll concentration for both this bonus and a spell you're concentrating on separately oh and also so this isn't totally garbage you can have proficiency on the concentration roll but not for the spell just for this effect?

 

[StarvingGamer]

Not a fan of the fluff, but that's not a problem you should care about. What I will say is that the Dodge action in 5e is not a very good one to have a class improve. The problem is that Dodge is kind of something that is best only here or there, otherwise it does nothing but slow the fight down (you're not attacking, and your opponent can't reliably hit you). But with the spelldancer, dodge becomes a fairly crazy tool right off the bat because you can still get an attack in as a bonus action. You may not be doing a ton of damage at first, but your opponent probably isn't going to be hitting you each round with the disadvantage, so all it does is makes the fight slow down while you build up your dancing bonus damage until deciding to fully attack. It's slow, and probably boring for everyone else at the table. Intelligent creatures are likely to just turn away and attack someone else, which is what dodge typically causes, but you aren't really sacrificing anything to make it happen.

Furthermore, the class is obviously an offensive class, so the design really should incorporate defenses as a weakness. Giving the class spells like mage armor and mirror image just don't make sense, from a balance standpoint. And speaking of spells, you've basically cherry-picked the best and most useful offensive and utility spells in the game, from what I can tell. I'd probably tone that down a bit.

Lastly, I think the theme of the class would lend itself better as a bard subclass.

Anyway, I think the overall idea is fine, in the cliche JRPG/Anime style of combat. I just think it's a bit over the top in how strong it is with both offense and defense. Even it's utility value is pretty high with being given a choice of 3 skills from a large list of some of the best skills in the game.

Given that standard fight length is supposed to be 3 rounds, giving up a whole turn to dodge and make one swing without modifier damage is a big sacrifice. Honestly I don't imagine it will be used very often, it's more a flavorful thing to have in a pinch.

I wasn't cherry-picking spells for efficacy, just spells that were elemental or at least have an elemental flavor. Mage Armor makes sense as a barrier or wind or something, and honestly won't be a buff to the Spelldancer's AC unless your CHA mod is +2 or lower, which is unlikely given how much this class revolves around CHA. I was hesitant about Mirror Image and mostly was thinking about water clones from Naruto but I'll think on it some more. Maybe that goes, although again as a momentum-based offensive class, giving up 1/3 of your turns to cast Mirror Image is a big ask.

As far as it being a bard subclass, it's hard for me to see a way to keep all the thematic elements of the Ceaseless Dance, and the four elemental paths. Bards aren't exactly an offensive class and this is definitely an offensive class. You're right about the 3 skills though. I was just thinking on that a few hours ago and wondering if I should change it to 2. I'll probably end up doing that.

Thanks for the feedback! Maybe Mirror Image goes to but, I dunno, Naruto! lol

 

[Tormyr]

Given that standard fight length is supposed to be 3 rounds, giving up a whole turn to dodge and make one swing without modifier damage is a big sacrifice. Honestly I don't imagine it will be used very often, it's more a flavorful thing to have in a pinch.

I wasn't cherry-picking spells for efficacy, just spells that were elemental or at least have an elemental flavor. Mage Armor makes sense as a barrier or wind or something, and honestly won't be a buff to the Spelldancer's AC unless your CHA mod is +2 or lower, which is unlikely given how much this class revolves around CHA. I was hesitant about Mirror Image and mostly was thinking about water clones from Naruto but I'll think on it some more. Maybe that goes, although again as a momentum-based offensive class, giving up 1/3 of your turns to cast Mirror Image is a big ask.

As far as it being a bard subclass, it's hard for me to see a way to keep all the thematic elements of the Ceaseless Dance, and the four elemental paths. Bards aren't exactly an offensive class and this is definitely an offensive class. You're right about the 3 skills though. I was just thinking on that a few hours ago and wondering if I should change it to 2. I'll probably end up doing that.

Thanks for the feedback! Maybe Mirror Image goes to but, I dunno, Naruto! lol

My thought was that this might fit better as the archetype for an existing class as well. My first thought was that without the ceaseless dance this is mostly an elemental monk. The dancing part would then fit in as a separate archetype for monk. I realize you wanted both at the same time though...

The fighting dancer is something I have liked the concept of ever since I watched the Legion of eXtraordinary Dancers. It also fits in with sword dancing, Capoeira, and other dance/martial arts styles.

I think the monk archetype while dropping the elemental portion would probably work best, although I realize you wanted that. It just seems like the elemental part is "extra" and not core to the concept. From what I read of your intro, the elemental force that the spelldancer focuses on is closely aligned with ki.

I will try to take a closer look at this over the weekend.

 

[StarvingGamer]

My thought was that this might fit better as another classes archetype as well. My first thought was that without the ceaseless dance this is mostly an elemental monk. The dancing part would then fit in as a separate archetype for monk. I realize you wanted both at the same time though...

The fighting dancer is something I have liked the concept of ever since I watched the Legion of eXtraordinary Dancers. It also fits in with sword dancing, Capoeira, and other dance/martial arts styles.

I think the monk archetype while dropping the elemental portion would probably work best, although I realize you wanted that. It just seems like the elemental part is "extra" and not core to the concept. From what I read of your intro, the elemental force that the spelldancer focuses on is closely aligned with ki.

I will try to take a closer look at this over the weekend.

The elemental spellcasting part is kind of the core of the class to me. Maybe I could word it better, but the concept is an arcane spellcaster who combines the verbal and somatic components of a spell into a dance. It's just that by virtue of the training they need to undergo to spelldance, learning intense body control and acrobatic movement, they happen to also be pretty skilled at weapon combat. The original image I saw in my mind those 15 years ago was a young woman wearing a belly dancing costume, wielding a scimitar blade, dancing as tendrils of fire swirling around her. There is definitely a monk archetype that could be made if you took the spellcasting out of the spelldancer, but I'm only interested in the full package.

I appreciate the feedback, though, and also thanks in advance for any time you spare to taking a closer look over the weekend. Maybe under scrutiny the elemental themes will better justify themselves.