D&D 5E "Charge Up" Mechanic: A problem for D&D

[Sacrosanct]

I don't know about that, 3e (and by extension Pathfinder) had and are having a good run.

I don't know that I'd say 3e tried to implement video game mechanics. With the exception of switching from THAC0 to ascending AC, there really wasn't all that much different in the core mechanics from previous editions. Mostly tweaks like crit ranges and feats. It was still pretty much based on a per day economy, and not every class had a similar number of "powers", especially powers you could swap out like you'd find on a taskbar in a video game.

 

[Khisanth the Ancient]

Having considered this for a bit, the major problem lies in Alpha striking.

Most characters (and that does include NPC/Monsters) have a tendency hit hard and fast in combat. Mostly because their lives depend on it, and having one less member on the opposite side living is a huge benefit for your side.

Yeah, killing monsters quick is pretty important when facing them in numbers.

This isn't a bad idea in itself, but I think an impractically large amount of stuff would have to change to make it fit in D&D. The adventuring day resource model kind of runs counter to it.

 

[happyhermit]

These types of rules are easy to implement in video games where options are extremely limited, and relatively feasible within TTRPGs which have a system that is more restricted in terms of defined mechanical abilities. In D&D in general and 5e in particular it is hard to include them in ways that; "makes sense", are not trivially easy to "abuse", and are "fun". IME.

By the time you tighten the rules up enough to deal with "bags of rats", intentionally missing attacks, players practicing guerilla warfare or starting combat with 600ft ranged attacks through cover, they typically lose some of their coolness.

I have no doubt they can/will be implemented in 5e, at least by a 3pp, but I wouldn't hold my breath that the implementation will be great for 5e.

 

[nightspaladin]

See rogues in 13th age. They have a mechanic called momentum, which keeps building on each hit they do, until they get hit. easily controllable that way

 

[happyhermit]

See rogues in 13th age. They have a mechanic called momentum, which keeps building on each hit they do, until they get hit. easily controllable that way

That brings up a relevant point, 13th Age's escalation die essentially does a little of the OT for all the PCs.

13th Age is a lot more loose with the dissociative mechanics in general and the escalation die is just one of my many issues with trying to enjoy that system.

 

[Xeviat]

Boxers don't come out doing crazy stuff right away. You save those till late in the fight. When your opponent is tired.

I like the idea of a class with escalating abilities. Superiority dice could easily be retooled to work as combo points or adrenaline or aggression. Warlocks could draw in soul power. A sorcerer could use blood power and their own pain.


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[delericho]

But that is how human body(or and other organism works).

You start fresh after sleeping and eating, and as the day goes you burn energy. Especially in battle. You would need some "magic" measure so you could drain energy from others.

I.E. vampiric touch spell. But even that drains your magic energy to gain life energy. It's hard to gain energy that is now coming from ones own metabolic system.

If you want to say "magic" go ahead, might be cool. But for some mundane fighter to gain energy by expending energy to attack? No way!.

The problem with this argument is that the Fighter isn't necessarily building energy, he's building combat superiority - that is, it's a relative rather than absolute measure.

I suggest watching some tennis, especially a match where one of the very best players is taking on someone just outside that top few. What you'll see very frequently is that as the rallies go on, and both players are expending energy, the better player gradually becomes more and more dominant while the weaker one becomes increasingly desperate. And then, at the end of the rally, either the weaker player will simply run out of steam and make a mistake, or the better player will unload a bit of magic to win the shot.

Something like that could well be modelled by both players gaining and losing superiority dice.

 

[dave2008]

I don't know that I'd say 3e tried to implement video game mechanics. With the exception of switching from THAC0 to ascending AC, there really wasn't all that much different in the core mechanics from previous editions. Mostly tweaks like crit ranges and feats. It was still pretty much based on a per day economy, and not every class had a similar number of "powers", especially powers you could swap out like you'd find on a taskbar in a video game.

I've never felt any version of D&D resembled a video game, but there was a good bit of chatter about 3e being video gamey when it came out. I would have to do some digging (which I have no desire to do), but I would guess grid combat maybe? I skipped 3e so I'm not really sure. It was just one of the complaints I heard back during the transition from 2e to 3e

 

[fjw70]

Some interesting ideas and in this thread. My main take away is that I need to relook at 13th Age.

 

[Horwath]

The problem with this argument is that the Fighter isn't necessarily building energy, he's building combat superiority - that is, it's a relative rather than absolute measure.

I suggest watching some tennis, especially a match where one of the very best players is taking on someone just outside that top few. What you'll see very frequently is that as the rallies go on, and both players are expending energy, the better player gradually becomes more and more dominant while the weaker one becomes increasingly desperate. And then, at the end of the rally, either the weaker player will simply run out of steam and make a mistake, or the better player will unload a bit of magic to win the shot.

Something like that could well be modelled by both players gaining and losing superiority dice.

What you have describes is most similar to attack roll/damage and HPs.

Better player can aim better and force his opponent to run for each return a little more than him, if every return you run 1 or 2 meters fewer, it will add up quickly. Like doing with each sword swing 1 or 2 damage more. You will win eventualy.