D&D 5E "Charge Up" Mechanic: A problem for D&D

[delericho]

What you have describes is most similar to attack roll/damage and HPs.

What I've described can be modeled using just damage and hit points, yes. But it doesn't have to be - combat superiority or the charge mechanics described in this thread could be used also.

Edit: One thing that simple HP/damage doesn't help with is that in the tennis example, the better player can't just pull out the winning shot right away - once they get into the rally they generally need to build up the advantageous position before the big shot becomes viable. So the eventual winner is often not just another 'attack' that happens to reduce the opponent to 0hp; it's a shot that would have been blocked before.

 

[delericho]

I've never felt any version of D&D resembled a video game, but there was a good bit of chatter about 3e being video gamey when it came out.

There's been chatter of that sort pretty much since video games became a big deal, but my recollection is that that complaint really took off with the 3e->4e transition. Not that it really matters - the complaint hasn't really been particularly valid of any edition.

And besides, if a good idea appears in video games that will adapt well to tabletop, shouldn't the designers at least consider it?

 

[dave2008]

Edit: One thing that simple HP/damage doesn't help with is that in the tennis example, the better player can't just pull out the winning shot right away - once they get into the rally they generally need to build up the advantageous position before the big shot becomes viable. So the eventual winner is often not just another 'attack' that happens to reduce the opponent to 0hp; it's a shot that would have been blocked before.

As a fan of tennis and a player myself I think that strategy works for all levels of skill. In tennis the kill shot is often developed by slowly maneuvering your opponent into a bad position and then striking hard and fast.

 

[delericho]

As a fan of tennis and a player myself I think that strategy works for all levels of skill. In tennis the kill shot is often developed by slowly maneuvering your opponent into a bad position and then striking hard and fast.

Certainly. It's just a bit more noticeable when you're wanting a mismatched game - in particular, until a few years ago I spent a fair amount of time watching Murray be not quite good enough to hang with Djokovic, Federer, and Nadal.

 

[dave2008]

Certainly. It's just a bit more noticeable when you're wanting a mismatched game - in particular, until a few years ago I spent a fair amount of time watching Murray be not quite good enough to hang with Djokovic, Federer, and Nadal.

But he has pretty much turned the tables now.

I can remember one match (when Djokovic was rising to the top and Nadal was falling) where Djokovic kept pushing Nadal wider and wider and slowly creeping closer to the net himself until eventually he had an angle that even Nadal couldn't run down and he just unloaded on a winner. I think a mechanic that reflects that could be interesting in D&D.

 

[Sacrosanct]

We all know that combat is pretty abstract, especially hit points. I believe that adds a bit of flexibility to how we can run it, and I think the sports analogy works well. A fighter who is building up to better maneuvers isn't necessarily shut down because he's tired (which does make sense; I'm not trying to poo poo that idea), but think of it as building momentum, like athletes do in sports. I think it depends on how you look at it, and doing something like that can be perfectly plausible. The OP is talking about things like BM maneuvers, not something like "after X rounds of building up power, unleash your fury to become a literal whirlwind of spinning blades, doing a gazillion damage to every enemy within a 50ft radius" or "spend all of your superiority dice, jump that high in the air, as you land smashing your weapon into the ground, all creatures within X number of feet radius take X number of force damage, where X = the summation of your die roll."

 

[Jester David]

It's a neat idea that would have worked very well in 4e, where the class could be balanced against the expected number of rounds of the encounter. I was always a little disappointed something like that wasn't done for the fighter rather than just giving them daily spells.

I don't see it working well in 5e. Encounters are too short and swingy.

 

[MoonSong]

Maybe give it something like milestones. The more fights you get into during the day, the more powerful attacks you can do? (like a reverse-nova).

But that is how human body(or and other organism works).

You start fresh after sleeping and eating, and as the day goes you burn energy. Especially in battle. You would need some "magic" measure so you could drain energy from others.

Not exactly. For us Early birds, we indeed start the day with all energy and alertness we will have and wear down during the day, but on the other hand night owls start the day at minimum energy and they build momentum over the day so they their peak in the evening and can keep going and going until they finally go to bed. Normal people (the other 90% of the population just remains stable during the day, without getting these energy peaks)

 

[Sacrosanct]

Not exactly. For us Early birds, we indeed start the day with all energy and alertness we will have and wear down during the day, but on the other hand night owls start the day at minimum energy and they build momentum over the day so they their peak in the evening and can keep going and going until they finally go to bed. Normal people (the other 90% of the population just remains stable during the day, without getting these energy peaks)

He's not talking about just day to day activities. The context of this conversation is around the combat encounter--a higher intensity activity--with the suggestion that the longer combat goes, the more powerful you become. No one, when doing a high intensity workout, gets more energy as the time of the activity progresses. You can get brief bursts of adrenaline, but they body wears down as you continue to do a highly physical activity.

 

[dave2008]

He's not talking about just day to day activities. The context of this conversation is around the combat encounter--a higher intensity activity--with the suggestion that the longer combat goes, the more powerful you become. No one, when doing a high intensity workout, gets more energy as the time of the activity progresses. You can get brief bursts of adrenaline, but they body wears down as you continue to do a highly physical activity.

That is not entirely true - and it is relative to your opponent as well. I can give many examples from my own and my children's sports careers. However, if your familiar with american football there is one that you hear a lot: "xyz running back get's stronger as the game goes on. What was a 2 yard gain is now a 5 yard gain," etc., etc. Now, does the running back actually get stronger, not really (though that can happen too), but he is fatiguing less than his opponents. He is getting relatively stronger.

I think that could be modeled by the type of mechanics that have been suggested.