D&D 5E 5e Warlord Demand Poll

How much demand is there for a dedicated warlord class??

  • I am a player/DM of 5e and would like a dedicated warlord class

    Votes: 61 26.3%
  • I am a player/DM of 4e and would like a dedicated warlord class

    Votes: 2 0.9%
  • I am a player/DM of 5e and am satisfied with WotC's current offerings for a warlord-esque class

    Votes: 67 28.9%
  • I am a player/DM of 5e and am satisfied with the current 3rd party offerings for a warlord class

    Votes: 6 2.6%
  • I am a player/DM of 5e and I don't care whether WotC designs a warlord class for 5e

    Votes: 94 40.5%
  • I am a player/DM of 4e and I don't care whether WotC designs a warlord class for 5e

    Votes: 2 0.9%

  • Poll closed .
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When WotC brings out rules that no one is asking for, like Mass Combat Rules...
I was asking for those, actually. Just not... it's hard to think of a phrasing that can't be read as insulting... I want to say "Just not as loudly as people have asked for other things", but I also want it noted that I mean "loud" only as a measurement of intensity, not as a value judgement, nor as an acceptance of the suggestion that less people want mass combat rules than want a warlord (because that's not information any of us have anything near an accurate reading of - especially given how early in the edition's life cycle the first shot at mass combat rules came. There is no way to know that if they hadn't given a go at them by this point it would not have resulted in similarly visible demand as can be seen for a warlord class)

When they bring out rules TWICE for a class that people never asked for by name...
You are simultaneously understating how many people asked for a particular thing, and making the thing being asked for unnecessarily specific. Assuming you are talking about the Favored Soul, it's not just people saying "I want a favored soul" that should count as asking - it's anyone that says "I want more sorcerer options" (or whatever the first attempt was, I can't remember it), anyone that says "I want more sub-classes, no specific class, just more", anyone that says "I want a divine-flavored sorcerer", and anyone that says "I want the sorcerer to have access to more spells", at minimum, that should be counted as asking, because the rules brought out provide an answer to every one of those asks.

Even if, in the case of the two different shots taken at mass combat rules and my asking for mass combat rules, the answer provided is one to which the asking party doesn't like.
 

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So what you're saying is we also need a Mastermind class?
No.
Mastermind is a rogue sub-class with a few warlord-y features. https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SCAG_RoguishArchetype_m39d.pdf

Tanking is secondary to the fighter. Guess we need a tank class. Wild shape is limited to animals, so a shapesmith class is necasssary as well. There's no enchanting bard, so a mesmerism is needed. Plus the summoner.
You can make a primary tank fighter. Though a sub-class wouldn't be bad.
You can make a primary enchanting bard. Spell slots make it super easy to fit a lot of different abilities in the same class. You can have 3 completely different casters using the same system.
If only the fighter had maneuver slots this wouldn't be an issue.... :.-(

Not sure about the shapesmith. What else happens with them?
 

Unpopular and not popular enough to devote limited resources too... don't have to be the same thing. Just curious...how many people seem to be asking for it?

How should I know? Go count them or something if it means so much to you. I don't really care. But it sure *seems* like a bunch, and that's all I can be bothered with.
Seems like a whole bunch don't like other people having stuff, as well. I think I've never seen such a silly argument against something as I've seen here. But I'm probably wrong.
 

How should I know? Go count them or something if it means so much to you. I don't really care. But it sure *seems* like a bunch, and that's all I can be bothered with.

I'm not the one who made the assertion...

Seems like a whole bunch don't like other people having stuff, as well. I think I've never seen such a silly argument against something as I've seen here. But I'm probably wrong.

And this seems like a simplistic view when one considers the realities of a roleplaying game with limited resources devoted to it, a finite pagecount of books, a slower publishing schedule, etc... but I could be wrong.
 

But, yeah, if someone's on you ignore list, you still have to unhidden their posts to see them, so, yeah, it's a bit of a stretch to "forget" that you've blocked someone.
Odd, they're automatically open for me. Either that or I'm so used to opening spoiler boxes that I don't even consciously recognise doing it, but I don't like the implications of that.
 

I'm not the one who made the assertion...



And this seems like a simplistic view when one considers the realities of a roleplaying game with limited resources devoted to it, a finite pagecount of books, a slower publishing schedule, etc... but I could be wrong.
What assertion? I said "plenty of people are asking for it."

Plenty are. How many is that? I don't care.

You're the one who thinks that number needs to reach some imaginary bar.

I can't tell if you are being intentionally frustrating to talk to.

Sent from my LG-D852 using EN World mobile app
 

Sorry if this may ramble a bit, but seeing as everyone is so insistent on promoting their own opinion, here’s mine.

I came back to tabletop roleplaying 5 years ago, and became part of games which mainly used older rulesets (2E, C&C) or fast paced systems which lean towards more time spent storytelling, investigating and roleplaying (FATE, CofC). This is because I like a game to move along at a decent pace and not get bogged down in mechanics. As a DM I detest reading through page after page of dry rules which attempt to codify all possible outcomes. The ‘rulings over rules’ mindset is necessary for me to enjoy running a game.

As a player I like fellow players to be invested in the personalities of their characters, I prefer the focus of the game to be on exploration and interaction, and I need combat to be relatively short and sweet. I cannot abide theorycrafting and hate to see a character planned out mechanically many sessions in advance. I have a similar dislike for combat becoming a game of chess, with players pondering over moves on a gridded board, or an exercise in bookkeeping, with the DM having to keep track of umpteen conditions and modifiers.

Core 5E mostly hits the sweet spot, at least it does for levels 1-10 – sure there are a few bits I’m not too keen on – the speed with which unconscious characters can be up and fighting again, fast levelling, full hitpoints after a single night’s rest, but I can tweak that easily WITHOUT breaking the game. The game allows, nay encourages that minor tweaking.

I’m strict on races and classes being those published in hardback form by WotC, and I disallow multiclassing for purely mechanical reasons – but even with those limitations, in the 5 campaigns in which I have participated/DMed, I’ve yet to see a class/race/archetype combination repeated even once. There are plenty of options there. My ‘by the book’ strictness there may to some, make me look like a harsh DM who prevents players from having any control over their characters. That is not the case, I’m open to reworking and reflavouring, as long as the story, the background, and the personality are the focus. I’ll let someone multiclass if it fits the personality, background and style of play of the character. And during actual play I’m very much a ‘yes’ DM – the simplicity of the game system allows me to be. Saying ‘yes’ during play drives the story and encourages the players to think creatively.

People are talking about a major mechanical crunch expansion. I don’t want it. I don’t want to have to learn the new rules, I don’t want any form of shift away from ‘rulings over rules’, and most importantly I want to continue to be a ‘yes’ DM, and be able to work mostly on the fly. More crunch almost invariably means more combat options, which in turn means the game slows down. I can’t bear the thought of that. More classes mean more ammunition for the theorycrafters, the number crunchers who turn me off gaming, greater opportunity for them to find some loophole to boost their (usually) adversarial style of play.

For me the Warlord class typifies an era when D&D ‘went tactical’, the game board was expected, the focus had moved from the minds of the group, onto a grid and a list of powers. It represents a specific style of gaming that I am glad 5E broke away from. I’m not keen on the Battlemaster archetype for exactly the same reason. But I do try to stick to my ‘pick anything from the WotC hardbacks’ mantra, so I’m not going to remove it – though I may just stick to running lower level games so that the number of tactical options the class has is more limited.

If WotC releases too much crunch in hardback form though, the mantra would have to change. And I’m old and crusty, and therefore resistant (half damage) to change attacks.
 

What assertion? I said "plenty of people are asking for it."

Plenty are. How many is that? I don't care.

The assertion I am talking about is you finding it strange for some people to think it's an unpopular class... Your reason for this assertion was that you see plenty of people asking for it. At that point I asked how many is "plenty"...

You're the one who thinks that number needs to reach some imaginary bar.

No but if you are basing your assertion on the opinion that the warlord is not a popular class on seeing plenty of people ask for it... I'd like to know what, even in a rough sense, is plenty?

I can't tell if you are being intentionally frustrating to talk to.

I'm not trying to be... just asking you to expound on your previous statement... maybe I'm missing something here but I see (outside of what I believe to be a vocal minority in this forum) little to no demand for a warlord in 5e.
 
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maybe I'm missing something here but I see (outside of what I believe to be a vocal minority in this forum) little to no demand for a warlord in 5e.

You would be correct. I've searched on Reddit for example (/r/dnd and /r/dndnext - the 2 main subreddits which discuss 5E) and there's very very little. If anyone does bring up the topic, they tend to get told 'it doesn't really fit 5E', 'you can emulate it with other classes', 'spell based healing is more than enough'.. and, unusually for reddit which does have a fair share of argumentative trolls, the topic tend to be dropped very quickly.

It just seems to be here that we have that highly vocal minority who won't let the topic lie.
 

What baffles me though, is why this same argument doesn't apply to everything else. I mean, how many people want an Artificer? How many want Psionics in the game? Why don't we see @Imaro challenging every new class addition in the same way? After all, every class is class bloat. Every class has issues. No class is anywhere near as popular as the core 4, and most aren't even as popular as anything that appears in the 5e PHB.

I missed this earlier but here's some excerpts from the WotC polls concerning Favored Soul, Artificer and some other classes...

WotC April Survey Feedback said:
For instance, we’ve heard consistent feedback that the sorcerer doesn’t offer enough options within the class. Not everyone is excited about the wild mage, thus leaving some players with only the dragon sorcerer as an option. It’s no coincidence that we showed off a favored soul option for the sorcerer in Unearthed Arcana. Plus, we have another sorcerer option on tap for that article series.

So I guess consistently people are asking for sorcerer bloodlines... and thus the Favored Soul

WotC June Survey Results said:
The artificer, the shaman, and the alchemist finished well in front in the survey. The alchemist is particularly interesting because we’ve never presented that as a class in a Player’s Handbook before. The crazy game designer in me thinks that all three of those character types could be represented in a single class (imagine a shaman who binds spirits by creating talismans). But that might just be all the caffeine I’ve consumed today talking.

So it looks like the Artificer as well as the shaman and alchemist are popular as well...

As for Psionics well I have no problem with it because, outside of me personally wanting it, it's necessary for Dark Sun and Eberron... two of WotC's most popular settings... it's a no-brainer even if they expect you to use older edition setting material (and we aren't sure they won't be revisiting either of these settings) you still need 5e rules for it.
 

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