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D&D 5E Historical Problems and 5E

+2.5 to 3 x PCs attack rolls and saves? Its one of the best spells in the game. It turns hits into misses routinely every round, an turns failed saves into passed saves (including concentration saves, conserving resources for a 1st level spell).

With the power attack feats it goes from good to brokenly awesome. We have a wolf barbarian giving us all advantage along a cleric blessing us all, and the barbarian, my warlock and the mystic all have GWM. At 4th level we spit out metric crap tons of damage.

So you knowingly all took GWM to go with your reliable advantage and then compound it by frequently casting bless. Well done for all being brokenly awesome. Sounds fun

I guess this is one of the things that 5e didn't fix - players attempting to break their own game.
 

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A couple multi-generational problems spring to mind.

First, is the over-abundance of magic, and the resulting lack of meaningful non-magic options. Two sides of the same coin, but definitely a problem and one remarked on even in this edition when you look at how many non-magical options are present in the PHB. In the early days fighter types were reliant on magic items, particularly once the implementation of enhancement gates kicked off, and while they aren’t quite as married to them now they still rely on magical knick-knacks for even a fraction of the utility of magical characters. Oddly enough for all its multitudes of faults 3.x did this better by noting certain abilities as Extraordinary, allowing them to be non-magical ways of accomplishing cool stuff. Even that though wasn’t enough to fix the logic issues of a character that can survive a 200ft fall and yet underperform real-world athletes.

Second is the gradual easing of non-damage related threats from monsters and environments. While I loathe save-or-die effects with a passion, the loss of things like level drain, disease, stat damage, item destruction, and curses leads to a loss of flavor in my opinion. Many classic monsters were feared even when they were significantly under the party’s level due to their innate effects, such as vampires and rust monsters.

I guess if I were going to point to some multi-edition thing I think got fixed/better I'd have to point to the linear Fighter/quadratic Mage argument.
It seems people who claim this as a problem are happier now days.
I'm not sure why though. Their martial types characters still aren't flying, teleporting, casting mass death/damage effects, plane shifting, wishing, etc themselves.... Apparently they're happy that their Mage-type buddies have less spell slots to support them, and that support can go away if the caster takes damage or casts some other really useful spell. (shrugs)

People are happier because the fewer spells slots (especially at high level) and concentration limits have made the wizard less of a one man army. There are still people like me who deeply wish for more fighter utility, but 5e is a good series of first steps in the right direction.

You can probably tell that I don't subscribe to that LF/QM line of crap. And my favorite types of characters tend to be martial types.
It was never a problem in BECMi - 2e. Why? Because for all the casters awesome at higher lvs? They topped out around 30 HP & the AC of roughly chainmail+shield. Maybe plate & shield depending upon the loot. Plenty of chances to become dead at any lv.

Can’t speak to BCEMI but 2e wizards didn’t care about hitpoints if they had a brain, by high level spell sequencers, contingencies, and scrying spells could see a wizard going into combat rocking a layer of buffs that let them ignore anything not a rival wizard. Note that both of these problems (copious spell slots and layering buffs) were neatly removed in 5e. These problems only became more amplified in 3.x/PF due to option bloat, greater base toughness and spells being more resistant to disruption.

3x/PF? Martial players who mewl about this must not know how to build effective characters.....

This is hilarious to me because I have yet to see any forum, even paizo’s, not fully acknowledge that magic users are worlds ahead of martials in terms of effectiveness in 3.x and no “builds” will save you from that. I’ve seen PF builds for barbs capable of hitting for over 1000 damage and IIRC their general usefulness was described as “decent”, because casters have such a greater degree of warping effect on the campaign as a whole and may not need to deal damage at all to kill/win a fight.

There ISa DM to blame if play becomes unbalanced so that one of these "factions" can't contribute. Instead of pointing to the rule book & crying foul, look at that guy sitting behind the DM screen.

So F.A.T.A.L. is a good system because the DM can fix it, right? Or maybe there comes a point where fixing a system is such a tiring element of running it that it ceases to be worth it and people move on to systems that can be run without needing to rewrite half the material. "The DM can fix it" is in my experience mostly commonly used to deflect criticism without addressing any arguments because it can be blithely stated about any system ever printed. I think there was even a name given to that fallacy but I can't remember it offhand at the moment.
 

Actually now that I think about it another gripe would be the 'fake' level range of D&D, where endgame and earlygame are basically written off in terms of balance or design decisions because of the data that shows most people don't play it. I think almost all editions of D&D suffer from this, as high level play usually breaks down for a number of reasons or campaigns simply run dry before getting there.
 

Actually now that I think about it another gripe would be the 'fake' level range of D&D, where endgame and earlygame are basically written off in terms of balance or design decisions because of the data that shows most people don't play it. I think almost all editions of D&D suffer from this, as high level play usually breaks down for a number of reasons or campaigns simply run dry before getting there.
Yeah, I would agree that it seems DnD doesn't really market for late game at all.
 

+2.5 to 3 x PCs attack rolls and saves? Its one of the best spells in the game. It turns hits into misses routinely every round, an turns failed saves into passed saves (including concentration saves, conserving resources for a 1st level spell).



With the power attack feats it goes from good to brokenly awesome. We have a wolf barbarian giving us all advantage along a cleric blessing us all, and the barbarian, my warlock and the mystic all have GWM. At 4th level we spit out metric crap tons of damage.

I'm not going to get into a super detailed bless discussion here, but as I said before, unless you just need the saves for some reason (another casters concentration spell is a great reason to need the saves BTW) or have the 'power attack -5/+10' feats then bless will usually be a wash. I'll open a thread on it.
 


In 5E all PCs can heal with HD on a short rest, plus you get all HP back on a long rest. Plus everyone is loaded with nothing to spend it on other than potions of healing which are 50gp each. Using valuable spell slots for healing is generally speaking a very bad idea.
And once (if) someone takes the Healer feat, some of that healing becomes even cheaper than the 50 gold/potion!
 

Well, if that's a problem then they errata'd it into 4e (turned it into a auto-hit) :p

vader-nooooo.jpg
 

Oh no, certain monsters have been resistant or even just immune to mundane weapons since the late 70's (go browse the 1e MM) & I presume earlier.

This would be correct. The original Monsters&Treasure pamphlet from the OD&D has a lot of monsters that are immune and/or damage resistant. Damage resistant and immune monsters have been around as long as hit points, and longer than variable weapon damage ;)
 


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