D&D 5E Why FR Is "Hated"

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Davelozzi]

I wonder, do people go to public libraries and lose their minds because they can't possibly read every book that's on the shelves?

...while at the same time complaining that the library doesn't stock enough books.

 

[Sadras]

As I read Hussar, he is not disputing what does or doesn't count as a FR campaign. He is just saying "If I ignore stuff the setting doesn't offer me anything; if I don't ignore stuff, there's too much detail, some of which is pointless detail."

(snip)

I've never bothered to look into what FR might offer, but if Hussar feels it offers little or nothing when the detail is ignored, well that seems to be his prerogative!

Sure, but it is his ALL or NOTHING approach that some people are taking issue with.

For instance running Murder in Baldur's Gate doesn't require you know anything beyond the outskirts of the city and with the adventure's campaign guide you still can run a very distinctive FR adventure: with Bhaal clawing his way back to godhood, the patriars, the structural design of the city, the Flaming Fist, the Watch and the various characteristic locales within the city. That's not too much to ask from any DM.

 

[Maxperson]

That's fair criticism.

It would be if it were true, which it isn't. I've played and run the Realms since 1e and I've never seen the rule stating that PCs are to be forgotten, or that Elminster and the others are to overshadow the PCs. As a result of that rule not being present, those two things have never happened in a game that I have played in or run.

 

[Maxperson]

Sure, but it is his ALL or NOTHING approach that some people are taking issue with.

For instance running Murder in Baldur's Gate doesn't require you know anything beyond the outskirts of the city and with the adventure's campaign guide you still can run a very distinctive FR adventure: with Bhaal clawing his way back to godhood, the patriars, the structural design of the city, the Flaming Fist, the Watch and the various characteristic locales within the city. That's not too much to ask from any DM.

The same is true of all of the Realms, really. You can take as much or as little detail as you want and go with it. When the PCs go to a city, I will typically just use the names of the sites(inns, temples, etc.) and a few other things that give the city the feel that it's supposed to have and then go with it. I don't bother with the named NPCs most of the time as the PCs don't need to interact with them.

 

[Davelozzi]

Why FR Is "Hated"

It would be if it were true, which it isn't. I've played and run the Realms since 1e and I've never seen the rule stating that PCs are to be forgotten, or that Elminster and the others are to overshadow the PCs. As a result of that rule not being present, those two things have never happened in a game that I have played in or run.

Sure it's not a requirement, and likewise it's never been an issue in any of my Realms games either, I was just agreeing that there does seem to be a bit of overload of super-powerful NPCs relative to other campaign worlds, and I can see how that could potentially turn some folks off, especially given how the popularity of the Realms and its novels have raised the profile of some many of said NPCs well above those of their closest equivalents in the other published settings. It's not a deal breaker for me either, but it is a noticeable difference in the way the Realms have historically been presented (5e excepted) vs. other published worlds.

 

[Cyrinishad]

It would be if it were true, which it isn't. I've played and run the Realms since 1e and I've never seen the rule stating that PCs are to be forgotten, or that Elminster and the others are to overshadow the PCs. As a result of that rule not being present, those two things have never happened in a game that I have played in or run.

This is exactly the case in every Campaign Setting (FR, Eberron, Golarion, etc.)... If something isn't confirmed by the in-game events at the table, or specifically referenced as part of a character's backstory, it is at best speculation or rumor, not an explicit fact... As the years have gone on, my PCs are less and less certain that any of the "heroic" uber-NPCs ever existed. However, they are quite certain that without their involvement, many of the very real threats of "villainous" NPCs would have caused unspeakable havoc... If they ever do meet one of the "herioc" uber-NPCs I am quite sure they will be highly skeptical of their motives, and may presume that they are merely charlatan's or "Wizards of OZ" so-to-speak.

Uber-NPCs are just a Straw-Man, without any substance...

 

[Demetrios1453]

Telling me that Greyhawk has too many gods is again, not a selling point for Forgotten Realms.

I wasn't trying to sell you on the Realms, merely indulging my OCD research side in figuring out which of the two had more!



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[Demetrios1453]

Oh, I agree that Greyhawk definitely has more deities. But what I like about Greyhawk's setup is that these pantheons can be subdivided into cultural pantheons, and not just racial ones. There are Oeridian, Suel, Flan, Baklunish, and some cross-cultural ones. There is overlap between deities' "portfolios" but they are tolerated, especially if there are cultural boundaries that provide a degree of exclusive worship. Boccob and Wee Jas, for example, are both deities of magic. The Greyhawk deities are expansive, but it does not generally suffer from things like Ao, the Time of Troubles, or the cut and dry, if not cringeworthy, balancing deity portfolios as if they were hardcopy portfolios and accountancy spreadsheets.

Setting books this short are generally not that common unless they are players' guides to a setting. Though that may also have to do with many setting books, depending on the rule set, also serving as the PHB and GM book rolled into one.

The Faerunian pantheon used to be a half-dozen or so desperate panthons as well (Netherese, Jamdathian, etc.) that, other than in Mulhorand and Chult, have since merged. Something similar is happening in Greyhawk, bit there just hasn't been as much time for the process to complete since the Twin Cataclysms...

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[MoonSong]

But MechaPilot DOES mind - that's his whole complaint. So my answer doesn't apply to you, but does apply to him. Not sure why you decided to take my answer to his specific complaint as an attack on you when it wasn't directed at you or anything you said.

MechaPilot is a she... ( [MENTION=5100]Mercule[/MENTION] take note)

Except that's exactly the opposite of what I've been saying. I'm saying "don't use the Realms, 5e makes it easier than ever to run your own campaign without using pre-published adventures".

I don't know, with 5e's arcane xp budgets I have problems creating an adventure that won't screw with party balance. (I had problems with 4e's one, but at least with that one the whole party was on equal footing and you didn't have to plan so much ahead)