D&D 5E Why I Am Starting to Prefer 4d6 Drop the Lowest Over the Default Array.

[Staccat0]

Optimizing isn't really necessary in 5e, so if you wanna play a Gish or whatever with the standard array you should be fine. That said, you do you.

 

[Tazawa]

We are doing this (which I stole from this board at some point) after the current campaign ends at 20th (we are close):

Everyone rolls ONE set of 4d6 drop lowest, then each set is written down on a sheet of paper. Players pick the stat array they want from the list, and players can even pick the same one. This way, either everyone is screwed equally, or everyone gets the god stats.

We do this too, except with 3d6. It's a little grittier and almost every character has some weaknesses, but everyone's in the same boat.

 

[TwoSix]

This has sure been another exciting episode of "Different groups play D&D for different reasons", one of my favorite dramas!

 

[Oofta]

Nothing has been added here for a while.

Point buy (my preference):

• I come up with characters when we start talking about the campaign.
• I don't want to rely on random luck to see if I can play the character I want to play.
• I don't really care what my stats are as long as they are reasonable and on an even footing with other characters in the group. Not because it's a competition, but because I want a chance to contribute to the team at the same level as the rest of the group.
• I don't see the point to randomizing stats for a character I'm going to play for hundreds of hours

Random Rollers:

• Like to let the dice determine the character
• If the dice give a character you don't like (or don't grow attached to) find a way to die.
• If you don't like random characters it's because you aren't good enough skillful enough player to come up with an awesome character if you have below average stats.

 

[cbwjm]

Nothing has been added here for a while.

Point buy (my preference):

• I come up with characters when we start talking about the campaign.
• I don't want to rely on random luck to see if I can play the character I want to play.
• I don't really care what my stats are as long as they are reasonable and on an even footing with other characters in the group. Not because it's a competition, but because I want a chance to contribute to the team at the same level as the rest of the group.
• I don't see the point to randomizing stats for a character I'm going to play for hundreds of hours

Random Rollers:

• Like to let the dice determine the character
• If the dice give a character you don't like (or don't grow attached to) find a way to die.
• If you don't like random characters it's because you aren't good enough skillful enough player to come up with an awesome character if you have below average stats.

Random rollers also come up with characters when they start talking about the campaign and do, in fact, create those characters. Also, with point buy, I will straight up allow a character to die or just bring a new one for the next game. It isn't the stats, it's the character that sometimes just isn't as much fun as you thought they would be and just because I used point buy doesn't mean I'm going to play them for hundreds of hours, although that's true for random stats as well.

Depending on how tight the character concept is, you often have to start making concessions with point buy as well since you don't have enough points to truly round out the concept. It's entirely possible with rolling that you won't have the stats quite where you want to but point buy isn't necessarily better.

Something I've seen from this thread and a few others is that there are far too many forum goers on both sides that seem almost fanatical in their love for either random stats or point buy.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Anyway, I'm sorry if I confused you or any others on my stance about the word hero and how it applies to RPG's.

No, you were perfectly clear, you were simply off base. No need for such a patronizing apology, although a more sincere one might be in order.

As for Random Rolling I think you are incorrect. Yup. Just looked. Both Random Roll and Standard Array appear in the same paragraph, but it is quite clear that the default method is Random Rolling as it says "If you..." when it presents the option for Standard Array.

I can't help but notice that you cut off the sentence after two words rather than acknowledge that the writers very explicitly had in mind people who "don't like the idea of randomly determining ability scores". But that's not really the important thing. You did quote the important thing: the word "you". Have you realized what this paragraph is actually saying? It's addressing the player, not the DM. The writers didn't just have in mind players who don't like random scores: the rules as written, the "default" which seems to be so important to you, clearly state that the decision to roll ability scores or use the standard array is in the individual player's hands.

Don't buy that? Go down a couple of paragraphs: "Bob decides to use the standard set of scores (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) for Bruenor's abilities." Bob is Bruenor's player, not the DM. Only when it gets to describing the point buy method does it use language to the effect of "At your Dungeon Master's option, you can use this variant for determining your ability scores." The PHB really is quite explicit about what's default and what's a variant. And the standard array is definitely not a variant.

We tried using the Standard Array method a couple of times, but we always felt each others PC's were too "same-ey". It was kind of, well, 'blaah' from everyones standpoint.

Okay. I personally feel the same way. That doesn't mean shunning the standard array is better for everyone, just better for us. It doesn't mean we're not failing as DMs if we require players to use the method that suits our preferences rather than the one that suits theirs. And it certainly has nothing to do with whether the PHB supports players having this choice.

PS: Here's the Miriam-Webster Dictionary definition of Hero: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hero

My compliments to the lexicographer for recognizing and capturing the varied usage of the word. What's your point?

 

[Soul Stigma]

Wow, lots of salt in here! I personally (as a DM) prefer rolling and, as a rule, DM decides these things. That said, if someone was adamant about using an array, I'd put it up to a vote among the players. Ultimately everyone (and I realize this is DM fiat) needs to use the same method.

All of that said, there is no right or wrong answer here, and hopefully everyone can see that. The game (especially 5E) doesn't hinge on how powerful or not you are at level 1.

The array (or point buy for those that use it) grant a more predictable and balanced outcome, whereas random rolls are just that - random. With random generation, there is such a thing as a "hopeless character" that permits another six rolls, discarding the original ones, so on average characters will be on equal footing.

The difference of +2 as mentioned translates to roughly +10%, which is both significant and not, if that makes sense. 10% will make a difference sometimes, but not enough (IMHO) to be game breaking or fun ruining.

Each table will be different and that's the beauty of D&D: we all end up in the same place, ultimately. Hopefully everyone realizes that debates over best practice in char-gen don't really need to be heated.


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[Lanefan]

Point buy (my preference):

• I come up with characters when we start talking about the campaign.
• I don't want to rely on random luck to see if I can play the character I want to play.
• I don't really care what my stats are as long as they are reasonable and on an even footing with other characters in the group. Not because it's a competition, but because I want a chance to contribute to the team at the same level as the rest of the group.
• I don't see the point to randomizing stats for a character I'm going to play for hundreds of hours

How do you know you'll be playing said character for hundreds of hours, unless you're in a no-PC-death campaign? For all you know you might not be playing it for hundreds of minutes, never mind hours, before it dies the death and you have to start char-gen all over again.

Random Rollers:

• Like to let the dice determine the character
• If the dice give a character you don't like (or don't grow attached to) find a way to die.
• If you don't like random characters it's because you aren't good enough skillful enough player to come up with an awesome character if you have below average stats.

* Random rollers are (usually) more flexible with their character concepts (or in my own case, just don't take it all that seriously and are in to entertain rather than win)
* Random rollers (usually) accept that just like in real life some people are simply better than others in lots of ways - we're not all equal-but-different
* Random rollers (usually) realize that not all characters will have the same likelihood of winning the Most Valuable Character award, though everyone has a chance
* Random rollers (usually) realize that D&D is to large extent a game of luck both in initial char-gen and in what happens afterwards, and that good luck in the field means far far more in the long run than bad luck during char-gen.

Lan-"it's not a good game unless I've used every die in the bag"-efan

 

[KahlessNestor]

Wow, lots of salt in here! I personally (as a DM) prefer rolling and, as a rule, DM decides these things. That said, if someone was adamant about using an array, I'd put it up to a vote among the players. Ultimately everyone (and I realize this is DM fiat) needs to use the same method.

All of that said, there is no right or wrong answer here, and hopefully everyone can see that. The game (especially 5E) doesn't hinge on how powerful or not you are at level 1.

The array (or point buy for those that use it) grant a more predictable and balanced outcome, whereas random rolls are just that - random. With random generation, there is such a thing as a "hopeless character" that permits another six rolls, discarding the original ones, so on average characters will be on equal footing.

The difference of +2 as mentioned translates to roughly +10%, which is both significant and not, if that makes sense. 10% will make a difference sometimes, but not enough (IMHO) to be game breaking or fun ruining.

Each table will be different and that's the beauty of D&D: we all end up in the same place, ultimately. Hopefully everyone realizes that debates over best practice in char-gen don't really need to be heated.


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Just wondering why you think the DM "has to" determine which method, and why everyone has to hse the same method? If all the methods mentioned are roughly equivalent, and, as some one mentioned, the PHB RAW actually makes it the PLAYER'S choice, why do you think DM whim applies? Unless, of course, the DM is using some custom method of their own?

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[Soul Stigma]

Just wondering why you think the DM "has to" determine which method, and why everyone has to hse the same method? If all the methods mentioned are roughly equivalent, and, as some one mentioned, the PHB RAW actually makes it the PLAYER'S choice, why do you think DM whim applies? Unless, of course, the DM is using some custom method of their own?

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For the same reason that all character races in the RAW may not be available in the game world, or published equipment may not exist. As I said, if someone is adamant about it, it'll go up to a vote. Never had that issue, though, in either direction - when using arrays, no one said "but I want to roll" nor vice versa. Never used point buy, hence not mentioned.


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