D&D 5E Warlock: The Raven Queen Patron

[Caliban]

This is where you're wrong, What it literally says is subject to interpretation. You're interpretation and mine are different. I don't need to blame you on anything because you're not my DM.

Well, you certainly put me in my place.

 

[neogod22]

It may seem overpowered to you on paper, but what you don't realize is, in combat, it takes the warlock out of the fight. He can't fight in that form, and really can't interact with most objects. Using the help action, might be a little helpful, but not as helpful as doing damage or killing things. Warlocks is one of the highest DPS classes in the game, so every round they don't do damage, is a round that they don't benefit the party.

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[Caliban]

It may seem overpowered to you on paper, but what you don't realize is, in combat, it takes the warlock out of the fight. He can't fight in that form, and really can't interact with most objects. Using the help action, might be a little helpful, but not as helpful as doing damage or killing things. Warlocks is one of the highest DPS classes in the game, so every round they don't do damage, is a round that they don't benefit the party.

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Yes, yes. I bow before your superior intellect and ability to interpret rules text to mean whatever you want it to mean.

 

[Waterbizkit]

Alright, so at first I couldn't believe my eyes. Do some people really think that a level six class ability makes the character invulnerable?!? Ridiculous. The clear intent of the ability is to let you turn into a raven at-will while retaining the darkvision and advantages to perception, and that's it. That was my interpretation at any rate, and still is...

Mostly...

Then I noticed that Soul of the Raven is lacking something: what happens when you're in your raven form and reduced to zero hit points? I can't be sure because I haven't sifted through every rule in all the books, but as I recall just about every other ability in the game, be it a spell or class ability, that allows the character to change shape has a clause for what happens when the form is reduced to zero hit point....

This one doesn't.

So, from this can we infer that the raven form is, in fact, invulnerable because they never intended it to reach zero hit points? I personally don't think so, but it's an interesting wrinkle. We know the raven vanishes if it dies or you die or you get separated by too much distance... but when you and the raven are one and the same the rules don't exist. No "when reduced to zero hit points while in raven form..." Nothing.

Interesting. Maybe. Regardless I liked the Raven Queen patron from the UA and hope it does make print. Even if it doesn't, I don't play AL and all UA material is allowed in my games, so I guess it doesn't matter in the end.

 

[neogod22]

Alright, so at first I couldn't believe my eyes. Do some people really think that a level six class ability makes the character invulnerable?!? Ridiculous. The clear intent of the ability is to let you turn into a raven at-will while retaining the darkvision and advantages to perception, and that's it. That was my interpretation at any rate, and still is...

Mostly...

Then I noticed that Soul of the Raven is lacking something: what happens when you're in your raven form and reduced to zero hit points? I can't be sure because I haven't sifted through every rule in all the books, but as I recall just about every other ability in the game, be it a spell or class ability, that allows the character to change shape has a clause for what happens when the form is reduced to zero hit point....

This one doesn't.

So, from this can we infer that the raven form is, in fact, invulnerable because they never intended it to reach zero hit points? I personally don't think so, but it's an interesting wrinkle. We know the raven vanishes if it dies or you die or you get separated by too much distance... but when you and the raven are one and the same the rules don't exist. No "when reduced to zero hit points while in raven form..." Nothing.

Interesting. Maybe. Regardless I liked the Raven Queen patron from the UA and hope it does make print. Even if it doesn't, I don't play AL and all UA material is allowed in my games, so I guess it doesn't matter in the end.

And this, like many rules are subject to interpretation. A lot of rules are either vague, or has holes so the DM can rule their self. It allows flexibility where rules that are very detailed do not. The game is supposed to be fun, and you will get a better response from players for something that in your mind may be a little overpowered but fun, than something underpowered and not fun. While it's cool to go on forums to look for guidance on some matters, I encourage every DM to run their games as they see fit. A difference in opinion on a forum, Twitter, or any other site is just that an opinion. Even Sage Advice is an opinion. The only things that aren't are what's written in the books.

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[Caliban]

Then I noticed that Soul of the Raven is lacking something: what happens when you're in your raven form and reduced to zero hit points? I can't be sure because I haven't sifted through every rule in all the books, but as I recall just about every other ability in the game, be it a spell or class ability, that allows the character to change shape has a clause for what happens when the form is reduced to zero hit point....

This one doesn't.

So, from this can we infer that the raven form is, in fact, invulnerable because they never intended it to reach zero hit points? I personally don't think so, but it's an interesting wrinkle. We know the raven vanishes if it dies or you die or you get separated by too much distance... but when you and the raven are one and the same the rules don't exist. No "when reduced to zero hit points while in raven form..." Nothing.

I think the only thing you can infer from that is that nothing special happens when you hit 0 HP while merged with your raven. You are simply at 0 HP and have to make death saves as normal.

Note that your HP total doesn't change - when merged with your raven you have exactly as many HP as you normally do. They aren't replaced as happens with wildshape or polymorph. You also have all your magic items, use your own save and attribute bonuses, and can use your bonus action to cast spells (only your Action has restrictions).

 

[chunkosauruswrex]

This is where you're wrong, What it literally says is subject to interpretation. You're interpretation and mine are different. I don't need to blame you on anything because you're not my DM.

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AKA I don't like that you're ruining my powergaming.

The ability says what it says. Invulnerability as a bonus action is not written or intended.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I hope the theories are wrong and this sub-class makes the cut. It was one of my absolute top picks from all the UAs (and I skipped 3.5 and 4.0 so I had never even heard of the Raven Queen previously.)

 

[Waterbizkit]

For the record, if it weren't clear, my interpretation was that the ability does not grant invulnerability. That said, if anything, this discussion highlights that the ability needs some clarification before it gets put into print. If it gets put into print, which I hope it does.

And as an aside, there's no chance I won t create one if these Warlocks and go either pact of the chain or pact of the time to get a second raven and name the Huginn and Muninn. And if that Warlock also wields a spear... Well, that'll just be coincidental.

 

[neogod22]

AKA I don't like that you're ruining my powergaming.

The ability says what it says. Invulnerability as a bonus action is not written or intended.

How does something with no combat value equate to power gaming exactly?

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