D&D 5E Warlock: The Raven Queen Patron

[neogod22]

Give an example of a strong warlock concentration spell with a high damage output.

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[neogod22]

...are you for real? There's a reason you are limited to a single concentration spell at a time - it's because they are so strong.

In the hands of normal a wizard, yes being able to cast multiple concentration spells will make a wizard Damn near invincible

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[Caliban]

Give an example of a strong warlock concentration spell with a high damage output.

Ah, now you are changing it from "strong concentration spells" to "strong concentration spells with a high damage output".

Even then, I'd say Wall of Fire is both strong and high damage output (especially when combined with the Repelling Invocation on your Eldritch blast so you can throw enemies through it). Black Tentacles is also pretty good.

But since a Raven Queen warlock doesn't get that spell, you probably don't think it counts.

Discounting Patron specific spells, and dropping the "high damage output" requirement you tacked on, the "strong concentration" spells for a warlock are (in my opinion): Hex, Protection from Evil and Good (circumstantial), Fly (especially if you can fly in Raven form - now you can fly up to 3 other people at the same time), Banishment (up to two enemies gone for 10 rounds, possibly permanently), and Hold Monster (auto-crits for your melee allies).

Also a few other spells via Invocations: Slow, Bestow Curse, Polymorph, Confusion, etc.

 

[ro]

Alright, so at first I couldn't believe my eyes. Do some people really think that a level six class ability makes the character invulnerable?!? Ridiculous. The clear intent of the ability is to let you turn into a raven at-will while retaining the darkvision and advantages to perception, and that's it. That was my interpretation at any rate, and still is...

Mostly...

Then I noticed that Soul of the Raven is lacking something: what happens when you're in your raven form and reduced to zero hit points? I can't be sure because I haven't sifted through every rule in all the books, but as I recall just about every other ability in the game, be it a spell or class ability, that allows the character to change shape has a clause for what happens when the form is reduced to zero hit point....

This one doesn't.

So, from this can we infer that the raven form is, in fact, invulnerable because they never intended it to reach zero hit points? I personally don't think so, but it's an interesting wrinkle. We know the raven vanishes if it dies or you die or you get separated by too much distance... but when you and the raven are one and the same the rules don't exist. No "when reduced to zero hit points while in raven form..." Nothing.

Interesting. Maybe. Regardless I liked the Raven Queen patron from the UA and hope it does make print. Even if it doesn't, I don't play AL and all UA material is allowed in my games, so I guess it doesn't matter in the end.

Here's the real fun:

"If [the raven] is slain by a creature, you gain advantage on all attack rolls against the killer for the next 24 hours....The raven vanishes when it dies, if you die, or if the two of you are separated by more than 5 miles. ...At the end of a short or long rest, you can call the raven back to you—no matter where it is or whether it died—and it reappears within 5 feet of you."

If you-the-raven drop to 0 HP, presumably you have to make your death saves to see if you actually die.

If you do die, then you-the-raven are slain and you gain advantage against your killer for the next 24 hours; otherwise, you are both alive.

But when you-the-raven dies, the raven disappears. But you are the raven, so you would disappear. That will make it hard for you to be resurrected.

But, what happens when you die? If you cease to exist, you are out of luck. If you go to some other plane, then you can take a rest there, and call your raven back to you there.

But what about the raven?

The raven is "a spirit sent by the Raven Queen" and "you can call the raven back to you—no matter where it is or whether it died", which means that it is the same raven, the same spirit from the Raven Queen.

When the raven dies, the spirit does not: it goes to the Raven Queen awaiting its return to raven form.

So, if you die in raven form, you would go to the Raven Queen! And you wouldn't be dead, just lacking a body.

The trick is, how do you get back if you aren't there to call the raven back?

I suppose that is up to the Raven Queen.

 

[Caliban]

Here's the real fun:

"If [the raven] is slain by a creature, you gain advantage on all attack rolls against the killer for the next 24 hours....The raven vanishes when it dies, if you die, or if the two of you are separated by more than 5 miles. ...At the end of a short or long rest, you can call the raven back to you—no matter where it is or whether it died—and it reappears within 5 feet of you."

If you-the-raven drop to 0 HP, presumably you have to make your death saves to see if you actually die.

If you do die, then you-the-raven are slain and you gain advantage against your killer for the next 24 hours; otherwise, you are both alive.

But when you-the-raven dies, the raven disappears. But you are the raven, so you would disappear. That will make it hard for you to be resurrected.

But, what happens when you die? If you cease to exist, you are out of luck. If you go to some other plane, then you can take a rest there, and call your raven back to you there.

But what about the raven?

The raven is "a spirit sent by the Raven Queen" and "you can call the raven back to you—no matter where it is or whether it died", which means that it is the same raven, the same spirit from the Raven Queen.

When the raven dies, the spirit does not: it goes to the Raven Queen awaiting its return to raven form.

So, if you die in raven form, you would go to the Raven Queen! And you wouldn't be dead, just lacking a body.

The trick is, how do you get back if you aren't there to call the raven back?

I suppose that is up to the Raven Queen.

Well, you are merge with the raven, you don't actually become the raven. So (I think) the raven would go away and leave your dead body behind. And if you get raised, you then have advantage on all attack rolls against the killer.

Hopefully if this graduates from UA and gets published in an official product they will clarify it a bit more.

 

[neogod22]

Ah, now you are changing it from "strong concentration spells" to "strong concentration spells with a high damage output".

Even then, I'd say Wall of Fire is both strong and high damage output (especially when combined with the Repelling Invocation on your Eldritch blast so you can throw enemies through it). Black Tentacles is also pretty good.

But since a Raven Queen warlock doesn't get that spell, you probably don't think it counts.

Discounting Patron specific spells, and dropping the "high damage output" requirement you tacked on, the "strong concentration" spells for a warlock are (in my opinion): Hex, Protection from Evil and Good (circumstantial), Fly (especially if you can fly in Raven form - now you can fly up to 3 other people at the same time), Banishment (up to two enemies gone for 10 rounds, possibly permanently), and Hold Monster (auto-crits for your melee allies).

Also a few other spells via Invocations: Slow, Bestow Curse, Polymorph, Confusion, etc.

Exactly what I said before, warlock concentration spells are controller based. Most do no damage, the few that do do small amounts of non-scalable damage. When you get to the upper end of tier 2, and go to tier 3 and beyond, you can pretty take most spells that effect enemy creatures, and throw them out the window. A lot of stronger creatures have magic resistance, and/or legendary resistance. With the very limited spell slots Warlocks have, you're better off sticking to defense, damage, or buff spells.

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[Caliban]

Exactly what I said before, warlock concentration spells are controller based. Most do no damage, the few that do do small amounts of non-scalable damage. When you get to the upper end of tier 2, and go to tier 3 and beyond, you can pretty take most spells that effect enemy creatures, and throw them out the window. A lot of stronger creatures have magic resistance, and/or legendary resistance. With the very limited spell slots Warlocks have, you're better off sticking to defense, damage, or buff spells.

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No, what you said before was "...unfortunately strong and concentration spells don't go together".

Which is what I called you out on - you are only focusing on damage per round as a measure of "strong", which in my opinion is incredibly shortsighted.

But what do I know.

 

[neogod22]

No, what you said before was "...unfortunately strong and concentration spells don't go together".

Which is what I called you out on - you are only focusing on damage per round as a measure of "strong", which in my opinion is incredibly shortsighted.

But what do I know.

If you're going to quote me, quote everything, don't take a piece and ignore the rest of what I said.

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[chunkosauruswrex]

So how is that better than just using misty step 30ft away, firing off an Eldritch blast and then moving away another 30ft?

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Its better because it doesn't use one of your likely 2 spell slots. That spell slot would be much better served as a cast of spiritual weapon and hex. It also can't be counterspelled like misty step.

 

[Caliban]

If you're going to quote me, quote everything, don't take a piece and ignore the rest of what I said.

I quoted the relevant bit. The part I left out didn't change anything - it just continued your theme of "controller doesn't equal strong. Only high damage per round is strong".