D&D 5E monsters with feat and class abilities

[guachi]

Over the weekend I was trying to come up with an interesting encounter with humanoids for my party. To that end, I made summary stat blocks from the MM for the humanoids I was using (goblins, hobgoblins, orcs), all the other humanoids, and all the general NPCs at the back of the book.

One thing I noticed, and you all probably as well, is that many of the NPCs have abilities that look an awful lot like simplified feats/class abilities. It made it easier to "buff up" the humanoids by combining them with NPC templates (like a goblin acolyte) and then grafting on a class feature (like making it a Trickery Cleric for Pass Without Trace & Blessings of the Trickster for ultimate humanoid Scout team).

Usually, the simplifying of class mechanics works fine for a quick combat but often fails for something longer or for a tougher. But at least there's the obvious class chassis to work with. I mean, just taking any of the CR2 creatures that are casters (usually level 5 or 6) and making them trickery clerics turns a Scout with +6 Stealth into (roughly) one with +10 Stealth because of the Advantage. Add Pass Without Trace and all of a sudden you can have uber-scouts to ambush PCs.

 

[Xeviat]

I don't necessarily use feats wholesale on NPC monsters, but I do crib them. The Agile Duelist (or whatever it's called) feat is basically the Parry reaction ability a lot of NPCs have. Simplify things to make it easier on yourself.

I was running Red Hand of Doom converted to 5E. To get the feel, I had to build a lot of NPCs with class levels. I liked how hobgoblin soldiers with parts of the Shield Mastery feat felt; grouped up, they were well protected from fireballs with their evasion ability.


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[Bupp]

One thing I noticed, and you all probably as well, is that many of the NPCs have abilities that look an awful lot like simplified feats/class abilities. It made it easier to "buff up" the humanoids by combining them with NPC templates (like a goblin acolyte) and then grafting on a class feature (like making it a Trickery Cleric for Pass Without Trace & Blessings of the Trickster for ultimate humanoid Scout team).

I've been adding NPC stat block abilities to humanoids for awhile now. They fit perfectly as templates to add to another stat block.

 

[CapnZapp]

Or... you just add the benefits of the feat to the monster.
Possibly with a few class levels.
Then just adjust CR as you see fit.

The catch with "class templates" is that not every monster benefits from the class equally. So hard rules don't work as well. You can't just say "this feat adds +1 to CR" when adding Sharpshooter to a goblin triples their damage but adding it to a Mind Flayer has no significant impact.
Pathfinder had this funky formula where you decided on the role of the monster and use that to determine how much the CR increases: +1 every level or +1 every 2 levels (IIRC). But this meant you could add some classes to monsters without boosting their CR. Like the monk: +4 hp, +2 all saves, a feat, Unarmed Strike, and the ability to Flurry for - by RAW - no increase to CR. (I saw this a LOT in Living Greyhawk. In 3e, adding levels of an NPC class to a monster were +1/2 CR, so adding a warrior level meant a free boost to challenge.)

Sure. Now, what's wrong with suggesting this as templates...?

Instead of picking among all the feats, with no real direction as to what archetypes benefit from what feats, you would gain easy official guidance if there were a number of templates that allowed you to "thuggify" or "savage up" or "trained soldier" whatever an NPC.

There are already template-ish modifications in the list of racial modifications. I'm sure more DMs would feel emboldened to add feat-like or class feature like abilities to their monsters if that was actually supported explicitly, through templates.

Even relatively little things could do wonders to reduce the players' feeling of superiority, when they suddenly meet NPCs that can do Great Weapon Fighting or Action Surge or specific-Domain channel divinity stunts

 

[CapnZapp]

I think the default design for NPCs and Monsters assumes no Feats for PCs. I thibk if you use Feats (which I think the majority of groups appear to do), then yes, PCs may outshine NPCs and Monsters. Adding Feats or Classes or Class Abilities to a Monster or NPC would help reaolve that.

Depending on your desired effect, if you want an NPC to clearly excel beyond the PCs in one particular area, you can achieve that in a variety of ways. Depending on how complex you want to be, you can add a Class or a Feat, or even design an ability unique to that NPC. Or, to keep it simpler, you can just raise the relevant modifier or grant the NPC Advantage on all rolls using the rrlevant ability or skill.

Exactly.

So the game gives player characters optional feats, but does it care to give NPCs similar options?

 

[CapnZapp]

Over the weekend I was trying to come up with an interesting encounter with humanoids for my party. To that end, I made summary stat blocks from the MM for the humanoids I was using (goblins, hobgoblins, orcs), all the other humanoids, and all the general NPCs at the back of the book.

One thing I noticed, and you all probably as well, is that many of the NPCs have abilities that look an awful lot like simplified feats/class abilities. It made it easier to "buff up" the humanoids by combining them with NPC templates (like a goblin acolyte) and then grafting on a class feature (like making it a Trickery Cleric for Pass Without Trace & Blessings of the Trickster for ultimate humanoid Scout team).

Usually, the simplifying of class mechanics works fine for a quick combat but often fails for something longer or for a tougher. But at least there's the obvious class chassis to work with. I mean, just taking any of the CR2 creatures that are casters (usually level 5 or 6) and making them trickery clerics turns a Scout with +6 Stealth into (roughly) one with +10 Stealth because of the Advantage. Add Pass Without Trace and all of a sudden you can have uber-scouts to ambush PCs.

Some of the NPCs do get a small trickle of class-like abilities.

But very few (if any) get the real power feats that players take all the time.

In general, NPCs are hopelessly shafted and it would be nice if there were official puzzle pieces that allowed ambitious DMs to rectify some of that.

A very short section of the DMG just saying "you are allowed to stat up NPCs as full PC characters" isn't enough. Nobody wants to return to the old bad days of d20. All we want is a few embellishments for choice NPCs.

 

[Jester David]

Sure. Now, what's wrong with suggesting this as templates...?

Instead of picking among all the feats, with no real direction as to what archetypes benefit from what feats, you would gain easy official guidance if there were a number of templates that allowed you to "thuggify" or "savage up" or "trained soldier" whatever an NPC.

There are already template-ish modifications in the list of racial modifications. I'm sure more DMs would feel emboldened to add feat-like or class feature like abilities to their monsters if that was actually supported explicitly, through templates.

Even relatively little things could do wonders to reduce the players' feeling of superiority, when they suddenly meet NPCs that can do Great Weapon Fighting or Action Surge or specific-Domain channel divinity stunts

The terminology stands out. When I think of "templates" I tend to go to bigger things that really change the nature of monsters. Half-fiend. Spectral. Fey-touched. Cursed. Arboreal.
What you're suggesting is really more like the Alternate Powers / Monster Themes from the 4e DMG2. Which are kinda already in the game. They have been since the Starer Set introduced Ash Zombies. Pretty much every adventure has had an instance of a monster that has some variant power added trait.

If you want to add a Trait or Action based on a feat... why not?

In terms of official guidance, that's already there. Pages 282-3 in the DMG. The advice doesn't change. You just need to look and see if it's defences and/or offence have increased enough to warrant an increase of +1 CR.
Sure, some more advice on designing good monster traits and monsters for the game would be nice. And it'd also be nice to have a book of example monster themes and alternate actions and powers (like for giants in Storm King's Thunder or a third of the monsters in Volo's Guide to Monsters. But there's a dozen other topics that'd be equally nice. I expect we'll see more examples when WotC gets around to doing another book of monsters in 2020 or 2021...

 

[Rhenny]

Here's my cheat sheet to help me modify monsters. A special ability or two surprises my players and makes combat interesting.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpgdownloads.php?do=download&downloadid=1375

 

[Ancalagon]

In my game, an archmage was waylaid by a few ogres. He blasted them to bits, but the last surviving one he planted a dire curse upon it instead: he gifted it with intelligence.

The ogre became wearied and unsatisfied of its primitive lifestyle. Priorities, like smashing stuff, didn't seem to matter anymore. His friends couldn't string an interesting sentence. Soon the ogre left its dullard companions behind, and found a monastery in the mountain, and attained enlightenment.

This is how there is an ogre monk in my game. It doesn't just have to be for foes for the PCs to fight with. The question "how could this have happened?" can stimulate creativity.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Exactly.

So the game gives player characters optional feats, but does it care to give NPCs similar options?

Well most of the options I suggested are part of the game. I don't know if they're presented as being for NPCs in addition to PCs, but I don't think it's discouraged.

I certainly wouldn't have minded a list of alternative options like Feats designed to be added to existing monster stat blocks, but the lack of such is no major obstacle to me tweaking monsters and NPCs.