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Should the DMG suggest improv and acting classes?


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robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
No, because it's unnecessary and intimidating. Roleplaying is not acting, it is putting yourself in the shoes of your character in the gameworld and making decisions. Interacting with NPCs does not require a performance, a player can quite adequately describe what their character does in the third person:

"My character takes offense at those words and grumbles about the rudeness"

It's great if the players want to animate their characters through performance, but it is absolutely not essential to playing the game.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
There are a few different "styles" or ways to play D&D.

A lot of groups just want to roll dice and kill monsters. They don't need Improv or Acting guidance - they simply won't care.

Others want to focus more on story and character development - if that's your preference, then additional training or experience could definitely help.

Not sure if it would be a good idea for the DMG to promote other ways to spend your money. :)
 
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Wiseblood

Adventurer
I would say no. I would say no in the PHB too. All of us were kids at one time and possibly still are. It is reasonable to assume that we know how to pretend.
 

Waterbizkit

Explorer
No, at least not in my opinion. If a player or a DM has experience with acting or improv those are wonderful tools to be able to call on, but they are not required. If getting into an RPG like D&D creates an organic interest in acting or improv and a person seeks them out on their own after the fact, it's great when one hobby can lead a person to find other passions. That said, I don't feel it should be taken to the point that the DMG, or any other rulebook for that matter, should be pushing people in that direction.

Now I know we can sit about and hash out the semantics on what would constitute a friendly suggestion versus creating the sense in the reader that these are required, but in the end it makes no difference to me... as soon as the book says anything to the effect of "you should go out and try some acting classes", no matter how it's worded, it has gone a step too far. Getting into this hobby can be a bit intimidating as it is, particularly for new DMs, and giving the slightest impression you might actually need classes to be a "better" DM just rubs me the wrong way.

Anyway, to each their own and all that, but this isn't my cup of tea in the slightest.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I would like to see at least some improvisational tips taken from improv acting in the PHB or DMG. I think they are exceedingly useful techniques for roleplaying games.

In the D&D 4e DMG, there was a section on saying "Yes, and..." which comes from improvisational theater. It read:

[sblock]"One of the cornerstones of improvisational theater technique is called “Yes, and . . .” It’s based on the idea that an actor takes whatever the other actor gives and builds on that.

That’s your job as well. As often as possible, take what the players give you and build on it. If they do something unexpected, run with it. Take it and weave it back into your story without railroading them into a fixed plotline.

For example, your characters are searching for a lich who has been sending wave after wave of minions at them. One of the players asks if the town they are in has a guild of wizards or some other place where wizards might gather. The reasoning goes that such a place would have records or histories that mention this lich’s activities in the past, when the lich was still a living wizard. That wasn’t a possibility you’d anticipated, and you don’t have anything prepared for it.

Many DMs, at this point, would say, “No, there’s no wizards’ guild here.”

What a loss! The players end up frustrated, trying to come up with some other course of action. even worse, you’ve set limits to your own campaign. You’ve decided that this particular town has no association of wizards, which could serve as a great adventure hook later in your campaign.

When you say yes, you open more possibilities. Imagine you say there is a wizards’ guild. You can select wizards’ names from your prepared lists. You could pull together a skill challenge encounter you have half-prepared and set it up as the encounter that the PCs need to overcome in order to gain access to the wizards’ records. You could use a mini-dungeon map to depict the wizards’ library if the PCs decide to sneak in, and then scrape together an encounter with a golem or some other guardian. Take a look at your campaign lists, think about what would help the PCs find the lich, and tell the players they find that information after much digging through the wizards’ records.

Instead of cutting off possibilities, you’ve made your campaign richer, and instead of frustrating your players, you’ve rewarded them for thinking in creative and unexpected ways. Make a note of the things you just invented about this wizards’ cabal (adding them to your campaign lists), and use the cabal again later in
your campaign. Everyone’s happy![/sblock]

While that advice was aimed at the DM, I think it's very good advice for the players as well and encouragement to use "Yes, and..." is part of my Table Rules document in every campaign. It cuts down on game-delaying debates and fosters an environment where everyone's good-faith ideas are accepted rather than criticized or dismissed.

Another thing from improv that I think works very well in D&D is the general rule of not asking questions. In improv, you generally don't ask questions when performing a scene unless that question adds new information in the asking (not because of whatever answer might be offered). This is because you're essentially forcing the responsibility of establishing the scene on someone else instead of truly collaborating to build something from nothing.

In D&D, questions are a form of playing it safe since questions aren't actions and actions can sometimes come with risk. So it's a very safe tactic indeed to just ask questions of the DM rather than actually have your character do anything. Outside of clarifying something that the player misunderstood or that I could have done a better job establishing, I see asking questions as a form of cheating in a sense and redirect questions back to the players: "What do you DO to get that information?" I've seen other DMs take a question as a form of action declaration, assuming what the PC does to get the info the player wants. I think this is a mistake since the players declare the characters' actions, not the DM. Some guidance from improv theater to the player in this regard might help improve some common game issues that I've seen.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
In D&D, questions are a form of playing it safe since questions aren't actions and actions can sometimes come with risk. So it's a very safe tactic indeed to just ask questions of the DM rather than actually have your character do anything. Outside of clarifying something that the player misunderstood or that I could have done a better job establishing, I see asking questions as a form of cheating in a sense ....
Nod. One D&Der's 'cheating' is another's 'skilled play.' ;) The player asking the DM a series of questions, especially 'can I...?' questions is a stereotype because it happens. ;)
On one level, the player is just trying to understand his character's capabilities, something the character, were it not imaginary, would know on an intuitive level from a lifetime's experience of being itself, but which the player may or may not have any inkling of depending on the degree to which the rules cover the capabilities in question.
On another level, he's angling for certainty in the outcome of his next action. Ask enough of the right questions and you might be able to box the DM into ruling a certain way when you finally act on the answers.

I don't think those are unfamiliar dynamics to anyone whose DM'd a lot. Players* aren't annoying just be annoying, they generally have a good reason (even if they haven't thought it through & cynically hit on a strategy specifically to manipulate or infuriate you) for being annoying.











*OK, not all players.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Nod. One D&Der's 'cheating' is another's 'skilled play.' ;) The player asking the DM a series of questions, especially 'can I...?' questions is a stereotype because it happens. ;)
On one level, the player is just trying to understand his character's capabilities, something the character, were it not imaginary, would know on an intuitive level from a lifetime's experience of being itself, but which the player may or may not have any inkling of depending on the degree to which the rules cover the capabilities in question.

Yes, and it's those sorts of questions that I think can be made in the form of an action declaration that drives the scene forward and tells a story, rather than stop the scene moving forward while the DM and player hash it out with a 20 Questions minigame. A DM faced with such questions might ask "What do you do or draw upon to assess your odds of success here?" to get the player out of the habit of asking questions and and into the habit of establishing actions.

On another level, he's angling for certainty in the outcome of his next action. Ask enough of the right questions and you might be able to box the DM into ruling a certain way when you finally act on the answers.

I don't think those are unfamiliar dynamics to anyone whose DM'd a lot. Players* aren't annoying just be annoying, they generally have a good reason (even if they haven't thought it through & cynically hit on a strategy specifically to manipulate or infuriate you) for being annoying.

Yes, and it's often those sorts of players that are using leading questions to get the DM to agree on auto-success. It's a little game where they keep their ultimate goal and approach fairly obscure until all the complicating factors are eliminated. Then BAM, they act, as you say. It's clever, but unnecessary. I don't see this often in my games - been a very long time really. I attribute it to trust in addition to Table Rules curbing questions.

Some kind of advice on this in the DMG, with improv theater as a basis for it, would be welcome.
 

D&D is a game. Do you want to take acting lessons to play Monopoly? You can, if that's your thing. But it's not mandatory, nor even expected. Everyone approaches it the way they want to.
 

Hussar

Legend
I can see the value in having it, but, I wouldn't actually go so far as suggesting it. As was said, it's not necessary. Although, to be fair, it can bring a lot of value to the game.

TBH, I think that the Actual Plays that people are putting on Youtube and whatnot are probably the best approach. Show how you can do it if you want, rather than trying to push people in that direction.
 

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